CHD Report post Posted October 18, 2003 These questions are for any of you who are experienced with aging Coues bucks and comparing their age with their rack size. Amanda, perhaps you could offer some insight as well? Hunters and biologists refer to "mature" muleys as those that are 5 or more years old. That is the age when the size of the rack reaches it's full proportions and doesn't show large increases in size in subsequent years. It usually takes at least 5 years for a muley buck to grow a B & C class rack. Typically, a muley buck will maintain the large rack in years, 5,6, and 7, and generally starts regressing (growing a smaller rack) in year 8 or so. Depending on genetics, latititude/harshness of winter, and feed, some bucks don't start regressing until 10 or so. I have heard over the years that Eastern/Northern whitetails grow much more quickly, with 4 and even 3 year old bucks of B & C size in areas with good genetics. I once read that Milo Hanson's world record typical taken in Canada was only 3 or 4 years old. My questions, of course, relate to Coues bucks. Here they are. Does the term "mature buck" officially refer to one that is at least 5 years old? Can a buck be 3 or 4 years old and have a 90-inch rack in Arizona? What is the minimum age that you would expect a buck to have in order to make B & C at 110 points typical net score? At what age do Coues bucks typically start regressing in Arizona? What is the typical lifespan of a Coues buck in Arizona assuming death by natural causes? I would expect it to be several years longer than deer in northern climates. I appreciate any input you folks might have on this subject, since I have been wondering about this for quite some time. Chris Darnell Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arizona Griz Report post Posted October 19, 2003 I am not experienced in aging Coues deer but I will give my personal opinion on your questions. First I think a mature deer would be at least 3 1/2 years old, possibly 4 1/2. Second, the size of the rack would be determined on the animals diet and genetic history not necessarily on age, and because of some of the studies that I have read with regard to age of deer hunters have shot (very few deer are older than 5 1/2 years), I don't think that they live in the wild longer that 6 to 7 years. Arizona Griz. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coueshunter Report post Posted October 20, 2003 I am real curious about this as well. Amanda will probably know all the particulars. What blew me away was the buck I shot last year in Mexico was only 3 1/2 years old and is over 100" even with the bad drought year they had. Cant wait to here the general statistics...........Allen.......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cervidnut Report post Posted October 20, 2003 >Does the term "mature buck" officially refer to one that is at least 5 years old? I agree, at about 3.5 y.o. I think it is appropriate to call a Coues a mature animal - there is no rule on this of course, it depends on your personal standards. >Can a buck be 3 or 4 years old and have a 90-inch rack in Arizona? Absolutely. Antler size depends on 3 things: Age, Nutrition, and Genetics. If the nutrition and genetic foundation are there a 3.5 year old can sport an impressive rack. >What is the minimum age that you would expect a buck to have in order to >make B & C at 110 points typical net score? This would be pretty unusual for a 3.5 year old, but not unheard of for 4.5 or greater. The influence of nutrition and genetics are so important it is impossible to generalize about antler size at various ages. >At what age do Coues bucks typically start regressing in Arizona? No one has studied this for Coues. It would require recapturing or re-evaluating the same deer though their life and it hasn't been done to my knowledge. A small sample of AZ Coues data I reviewed indicated deer were regressing in the 6-8 age class (maybe not until 8 years). In eastern WT it has been studied and it seems that at 7 or 8 overall antler size declines. Generally tines get shorter, antlers get thicker. Sometimes individuals will keep getting bigger until 10 years - again, age an genetics are playing a role. >What is the typical lifespan of a Coues buck in Arizona assuming death by >natural causes? I would expect it to be several years longer than deer in >northern climates. I don't think there would be much difference between AZ and northern whitetails. Northern WTs have the harsh winters but we have the equally harsh June period that is our nutritional bottleneck. A lot of natural mortality probably happens during this dry summer period if deer don't have the fat reserves to make it through. -Cervidnut Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted October 22, 2003 I agree with Cervidnut. In my experience, 3.5 year old bucks can go 90 plus inches. In fact that deer on the upper left corner of my web site came back as a 3.5 year old and he is about 90-95 inches. From the check stations I have worked, I have seen Coues deer increase mass, spread and number of antler points past 7.5 years old. I also think that regression of antlers is very dependent on nutrition and variable between bucks. I know that with other cervids, like elk, lots of hunters/biologist say that they are prime around 6-8 years old and bulls over 10 are worth getting rid of. But if you look at data from San Carlos, that doesn't hold water. The world's largest elk gross scored over 500 and was harvested when I worked at San Carlos back in the late 90's. That bull was 13.5 years old. And many of the monster elk that are harvested there are 10-12 years old. So I have trouble with people who generalize about when elk or deer regress in antler size. It is highly dependent on habitat conditions. I just received some cool photos from Dan King from a buck that he collected sheds from for about 10 years. I will post it when I get a chance and you can see that that buck put on some excellent growth after he was 7 years old. I know Dan has some other collections of sheds from other bucks that can show how they grew over time. Perhaps there are others like Josh and Jim Reynolds that have some other sets that would illustrate antler growth over time. Amanda Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHD Report post Posted October 28, 2003 Thanks everyone for the great input. Cervidnut, I hope we again have the pleasure of your involvement in this forum! Believe it or not, I printed out this information and added it to my "Coues notebook" that I have been compiling. This site hopefully will continue to assist in shaving years off of my learning curve since I am not able to spend any time around these fascinating animals during the off-season. Chris Darnell Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
