AZGFD Double Standard

[El Fuego]

The following is language straight from a letter that a good friend of mine composed last night.

 

 

 

 

 

Arizona Game and Fish Dept. 8-1-09

5000 W. Carefree Highway

Phoenix, AZ 85086-5000

602-942-3000

 

To whom it must concern,

 

My name is Xxxx Xxxxxx. I’ve lived in Arizona my entire forty years now. I currently live in Kachina Village just south of Flagstaff, where my family has resided for the past twenty years. I’ve always been an outdoorsman. Hunting, fishing and hiking are my passion. Generally speaking I’ve always been quite proud of you guys at the Arizona Game and Fish Department. Your job managing the wildlife of Arizona, especially the game species is no easy task. I believe you do a fine job allocating such reserved resources to the multitude of us folks wanting to hunt and fish.

 

Both of my kids have gone through your Hunter Education Program. Again you get my kudos! What a fabulous class. It was an honor taking my kids to learn about safety, but most importantly ethics. We hunting sportsmen and women are a demographic in decline. In a world where popular pressure seems to gaining momentum against our tradition, we must up hold ourselves with the highest standards of conduct. This would obviously include humane hunting practices and post kill game care. I pride myself in respecting wildlife in both these aspects. It sickens me to see or learn of others who lack this respect.

 

I’m fortunate to have an Archery Bull Elk tag this year in unit 6a west. It is the second time I’ve drawn this tag in the past few years and I’m excited. I’ve been shooting my bow multiple times a week on an auxiliary Forest Service Rd that runs up a small little draw behind Mountainaire. It is very close to our house and the two communities south of Flagstaff. Mountain bikers, runners and hikers as well other sportsman use this area intensely. It is definitely a wildland-urban interface area.

 

On Friday July 31st I got off work early, as I often do. I loaded up my old Willy’s Jeep and went out to my favorite spot to shoot. The draw is great because I can get all sorts of different angles to practice shooting up hill, down hill, across canyon, etc. I park the jeep to see a flock of vultures fly off. I smell a decomposing carcass and see a chocolate black lump of fur or hair just beyond the point I always place my target. When I go up to investigate I discover a dead black bear. The lack of blood and the fresh tire tracks make it obvious to me that this is a dump site. The head and paws were removed. I was certain some camper over the week had shot this animal and removed the parts of the animal they wanted. This sick person then left the meat and beautiful hide to rot in the mid summer heat. This was the type of thing that makes hunters look like reckless butchers. My stomach turned when I thought of all the non hunting folks who will see this crime scene.

 

I got back into my Jeep to drive home and report it since I had left my cell phone at home. As I drove I thought of all the bear tags I’ve had in my backpack over the years. I thought of late August evenings sitting behind a tripod glassing canyons. Although I’ve seen many bears on dozens of such outings I’m yet to fill a tag. Maybe this year it will all come together. Black bears are an incredible game species in Arizona, and a joy to watch and hunt. We are lucky to have the opportunity. I get angry as think of what must happened to this bear.

Storming into my house, I tell my family what I had discovered and I am eager to report this crime. I call the Game and Fish Dept. offices on Lake Mary Rd and speak to very nice woman on the phone. I do not need to describe too much before she asks me if the bear I had found was lacking its head and paws. Once I confirm this; she goes on to explain the bear had been a problem bear in the Kachina Mountainaire area and was euthanized by officials from your department.

 

At first I felt relieved. As I said before I’m a big fan of the Arizona Game and Fish Dept. I understand that bears can lose their fear of humans and can become a health threat in communities such as mine. I jumped back in the jeep and drove back out to enjoy shooting again. With in a few hours though I started wondering what was wrong with this scenario. Everything I had imagined before was actually still real. A bear carcass was still dumped with its head and paws dismembered and left to rot in a wildland urban interface area making hunters look like pigs.

 

I’m not upset with the fact the bear was killed. This was just an unfortunate reality the Arizona Game and Fish Dept. must deal with. What just doesn’t seem right was the disrespect the animal was given after it was killed. If I had legally killed a bear in Arizona and harvested only the head and paws, then dumped its carcass in a frequently visited area and been caught by your officers I would pay a high price for my actions. The double standard is a tough pill to swallow and I hope policy changes will be made by the State of Arizona regarding this act and others like it.

 

I would also strongly encourage you to send out the officials who dumped this bear and have them move it to a less frequented area. I have not shared this find with the news papers. However, I’m certain someone will find this carcass and share their information with the media. This would be bad for all of us.

 

I absolutely look forward to your response regarding this issue and expect a prompt reply.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Xxxx Xxxxxx

XXX Xxxxx Xxxxxl

Flagstaff, AZ 86001

 

928-XXX-XXXX

 

 

 

Now we all know that legally there is a loophole in or near A.R.S. 17-309 and, or 17-302 that will preclude anyone at the AZGFD from experiencing any consequences related to the matter. And we all know that if any one of us were to legally take a bear and let edible portions rot in the field, negative consequences would be inevitable.

 

 

 

[Ernesto C]

Oh man what a dissapointment and that is so sad. Will like to know what their response is. Also how can they be 100% sure if was the "problem bear"?

 

For all the details you gave I think I know who your friend is Good job and a big thank you for posting this info. Let us know the end of it.

 

Ernesto C

[Tines]

Terrible!

 

If the papers don't know about it by now, they will!

[cmc]

Most places don't allow you to donate predator meat as the don't consider it eatable.

 

G&F will at time take heads and paws for their I & E program to be used as education tools for hunter ed classes and such later on. They also will take samples of the tissue for testing and teeth for aging.

 

As for determining if it was a 'problem bear' thats usually based on it being a repeat offender. Don't rule out that there are times that the situation puts human safety at risk, either the publics or a G&F employees. If there is not choice but to shoot the bear to eliminate the threat of harm caused to a human then you can count on the G&F will take lethal action against the bear.

 

I would say the attitude has changed regarding nuisance bears ever since the event up on Mt. Lemmon where the young girl was attacked, I believe her name was Anna Connical, but don't quote me.

 

Nuisance bears put the department into a very touchy arena, do you risk that animal having human contact like what happened up on Mt. Lemmon years back, or with the state having a healthy population as it does, should they not take the risk and eliminate the threat? Relocation of the bears unusually doesn't go well for either that bear or another bear in the area that they relocate the bear into.

 

With the recent collaring of bears around the state I'm excited to see the finding in a year or two that in the end should help us gain knowledge on management of an outstanding animal.

 

In the end, it's sad that if the animal had to go it wasn't able to be harvested by a lucky hunter, but I can understand that in most cases safety or timing just plays a much higher role and actions need to be taking quickly.

 

 

cmc

[El Fuego]

Most places don't allow you to donate predator meat as the don't consider it eatable.

 

G&F will at time take heads and paws for their I & E program to be used as education tools for hunter ed classes and such later on. They also will take samples of the tissue for testing and teeth for aging.

 

As for determining if it was a 'problem bear' thats usually based on it being a repeat offender. Don't rule out that there are times that the situation puts human safety at risk, either the publics or a G&F employees. If there is not choice but to shoot the bear to eliminate the threat of harm caused to a human then you can count on the G&F will take lethal action against the bear.

 

I would say the attitude has changed regarding nuisance bears ever since the event up on Mt. Lemmon where the young girl was attacked, I believe her name was Anna Connical, but don't quote me.

 

Nuisance bears put the department into a very touchy arena, do you risk that animal having human contact like what happened up on Mt. Lemmon years back, or with the state having a healthy population as it does, should they not take the risk and eliminate the threat? Relocation of the bears unusually doesn't go well for either that bear or another bear in the area that they relocate the bear into.

 

With the recent collaring of bears around the state I'm excited to see the finding in a year or two that in the end should help us gain knowledge on management of an outstanding animal.

 

In the end, it's sad that if the animal had to go it wasn't able to be harvested by a lucky hunter, but I can understand that in most cases safety or timing just plays a much higher role and actions need to be taking quickly.

 

 

cmc

 

cmc,

 

Thanks for your post. My concerns and question are not the problem bear and the need to euthanize the animal due to the circumstances, or the value in research related to the situation. My concerns and question are related to how the animal was discarded in the manner and location that is was.

 

Thanks again for your contribution.

[ac guy]

On Fort Bragg, the G&F had a pit dug on their property to dispose of problem animals, and road kill collected. They'd fill it up, and dig another. Wonder if they could do that here?

[El Fuego]

ac guy,

 

That sounds like a much more professional and overall better option as opposed to what has taken place with this situation.

 

Thanks.

[azcoues]

with all the revenue game and fish generate they could of at least had a taxidermist do a mount on the bear and displayed it somewhere thats my .02 cents.

[cmc]

Most of the cases they do a pretty good job in hiding the carcases of animals they have to dispatch although the larger the animal the harder it might be to get it further back in the woods. Bears are usually in a trap and that means getting the trailer up into the back country (my guess what took place in this case). Figure also that most of these captures are work done solo by one WM. To add a second WM or help to the cause is going to cost the department more money. To have someone go out and dig a pit and bury the carcasses is going to cost the department even more money. That's going to be a hard pill to swallow for hunters to pay for it. I sure will oppose greatly to the expense of any policy like that. I think this case just had some additional situations that called for the location for disposal that aren't known to anyone other than those involved with the event.

 

Not that this is relavent to what took place but in reading the MOU between the USF&W and the AZG&F - if the G&F has a freshly killed elk or deer up near locations of wolf packs it's suggested to take the carcass close to the wolf pack and dump it so that the wolfs can feed on it. A struggle there is that the wolf program folks don't like to see the elk dumped next to a road and ask the WM to take the elk further back off the roads. So after a WM loads and elk (usually solo) into their truck they are asked to haul it as far back from the road as they can?? Oh and they ask that the WM doesn't get any human sent on it if possible.

 

Policy in these cases is easy to write when your sitting in the office of the FS & G&F. Pretty hard to fulfill when put into practice.

 

 

 

cmc

[El Fuego]

with all the revenue game and fish generate they could of at least had a taxidermist do a mount on the bear and displayed it somewhere thats my .02 cents.

 

Good idea. Or, I am sure that someone would pay for a quick notice depredation hunt, keep or dispose of the meat more ethically and have the bear mounted.

[El Fuego]

Most of the cases they do a pretty good job in hiding the carcases of animals they have to dispatch although the larger the animal the harder it might be to get it further back in the woods. Bears are usually in a trap and that means getting the trailer up into the back country (my guess what took place in this case). Figure also that most of these captures are work done solo by one WM. To add a second WM or help to the cause is going to cost the department more money. To have someone go out and dig a pit and bury the carcasses is going to cost the department even more money. That's going to be a hard pill to swallow for hunters to pay for it. I sure will oppose greatly to the expense of any policy like that. I think this case just had some additional situations that called for the location for disposal that aren't known to anyone other than those involved with the event.

 

Not that this is relavent to what took place but in reading the MOU between the USF&W and the AZG&F - if the G&F has a freshly killed elk or deer up near locations of wolf packs it's suggested to take the carcass close to the wolf pack and dump it so that the wolfs can feed on it. A struggle there is that the wolf program folks don't like to see the elk dumped next to a road and ask the WM to take the elk further back off the roads. So after a WM loads and elk (usually solo) into their truck they are asked to haul it as far back from the road as they can?? Oh and they ask that the WM doesn't get any human sent on it if possible.

 

Policy in these cases is easy to write when your sitting in the office of the FS & G&F. Pretty hard to fulfill when put into practice.

 

 

 

cmc

 

cmc,

 

Again, great post. Thank you again for offering your perspective and opinions. But, I think you have missed my point, which was; If you, or I were to legally take a bear and discard the animal as it was done in this situation, we would have to face legal consequences.

 

[azhuntnut]

"Most places don't allow you to donate predator meat as the don't consider it eatable."

 

They could have frozen the meat and shipped it down the the Adobe rehabilitation center in north phx. The center will take most meat since they have all types of animals that will eat it, including vultures.

 

I really doubt any type of action will take place against any of the staff since they were probably told to "dump it in the forrest" I know of a gentlemen that received a ticket when he didn't pack out all of his bear meat one time. David

[cmc]

cmc,

 

Again, great post. Thank you again for offering your perspective and opinions. But, I think you have missed my point, which was; If you, or I were to legally take a bear and discard the animal as it was done in this situation, we would have to face legal consequences.

 

 

I fully understand your point but when we take an animal it's under the classification of hunting unless done illegally, when the States Department tasked with the management of game disposes of a game animal, or non game for that matter, it's under a completely different set of rules and guide lines.

 

Hunters are to follow rules set forth mostly under Title 17, the Department works under department policy and other guidelines.

 

Think of this the same as a Phoenix police officer compared to you or I. (I'm taking it for granted that you're not an LEO so go with me on this) You and I have different rules to follow and are held at much different standards in a court of law if we had to use deadly force vs. a Phoenix police officer. Just like a WM, which is an LEO, they work under and have much different regulations they work under than citizens of the state they are sworn to protect. Things we would do that a LEO does would put you and I behind bars but not a LEO but in return things we do we might only get a minor citation vs. a LEO could face a court case although we both did the same thing.

 

Does that mean I like that differance... nope not all the time, but I understand it and recognize why the difference is there.

 

cmc

[cmc]

I was surprise to hear that either Alaska or Canada will not allow you to take out the meat of a bear as they have it classified as not eatable. So you shoot the bear and only get to take the head & hide. Yet if shot just on the other side of the border it's a fine. Go figure.

 

Predator meat is by far some of the beat meat I have in my freezer.

 

cmc

[NRS]

It could also be that the ear was tranquilized with drugs and was not fit for consumption by man nor beast. They still should have disposed of it in a more discreet location.