Native Resident proposal

[billrquimby]

Bill,

 

I can certainly relate to the concerns on the issue you mentioned above.

 

A perfect example of this is down in unit 30B, a unit that always goes undersubscribed in the draw, and for good reason.

Back in the 70', my dad and I hunted down there for a few years and the Mule deer hunting was pretty good, with good bucks to be had.

Over the years I have always put 30B as my 3-5th choice simply for the fact that I know the area, and I had alot of good times there as a kid, there are still bucks to be had with a little savvy and hard work.

The big issue down there is sub-developments, private land, and access problems, which have seriously condensed the hunters into smaller areas, and it has created areas that are being overhunted. The success rates are average or below most of the time, but the majority of the deer I see, and the ones that I see harvested by others, are mostly immature deer.

I guess I simply do not understand why more tags are issued, and an extra hunt added to places like this, that, in my opinion, simply can not support the extra pressure. I understand the "opportunity" side of things, especially for the younger generation of hunters. I do not see any long term benefit coming from a unit that has mostly 70-80 pound spikes and fork horns running around. Lack of access compounds the problem. Most of the good mule deer hunting in 30B is on private land, or blocked by private land.

Some of the ranches around the state also sell off sections of land, which in turn get sold off as 30- 40 acre Ranchettes and ranch land that was once accessible (or not) will never be again.

 

 

Str8shot,

Sorry to Jack your thread bro! But it always happens with these kind of topics.

 

Snapshot:

 

I am not a biologist, but I do read a lot and have spent more than my share of time chumming around with people who understand the dynamics of deer populations. I think Amanda might agree, too. It's always been my understanding that when hunters are taking a preponderance of spikes and forked-horn bucks that this is indicative of a healthy deer herd with good reproduction and survival occurring, especially when there are safe havens for older deer nearby.

 

The opposite is often true when most of the deer taken in a general season are older bucks. Most hunters are not trophy hunters. They shoot the first legal deer they encounter, and if the majority of deer taken from an area are three to five years old it probably means there is a scarcity of younger deer.

 

It would be interesting to see what the age status might be on those private lands near where you hunt.

 

Take where I've hunted mule deer the past four years, for example. This is on a friend's farm that is surrounded by larger posted private properties with better mule deer habitat than our friend's farm. We see one or two herds of 60 to more than 100 mule deer in his fields at sunup and sunset, each with good numbers of spikes and forked horns. There obviously are plenty of older males impregnating all those does, but so far my partner and I have seen only one mature buck in all the time we've hunted there -- and we couldn't kill it.

 

I continue to go there because it's an easy one-day hunt for an 73-year-old man with a health problem, and I shoot the first forked-horn that presents a shot. I outgrew trophy hunting when I realized my walls were covered with heads and there were boxes and barrels of skulls and antlers in storage. I still love to eat venison, though, and I expect to kill another forked horn buck again in October.

 

As for ranchers and the State Land Department selling land to developers, you're correct, especially in southern Arizona's mule deer country. Even if all of Arizona's state-owned land were to be sold and every acre of privately owned land were developed, we still would be blessed with more public hunting lands than most states, though. We just need to be able to reach it.

 

Bill Quimby

[coues krazy]

This is an interesting string. It is alway's going to boil down to few animals and lots of hunters wanting them, no matter how they rig up the draw. You have to find alternatives if you need to be in the field and yet still want chances at true trophy quality hunts. Try archery, varmit/lion hunting, playing with trail camera's, waterfowl etc. There is alway's something you can do to get outdoors.

 

My point is it does not always have to always "boil down to a few animals" if good minds get together and work on the real problem. Instead of worrying about bonus points and methods to decide who gets to hunt, we need to learn why reproduction and survival rates on Arizona's deer are so low and then do something about it.

 

As for the "lots of hunters wanting them", twice as many hunters as we now have (or more) would be no problem in a state as large as Arizona if all the locks and no trespassing signs that block our entry to state, BLM and forest service land were removed.

 

Forget "how they rig up the draw." A lottery wouldn't be needed if we had more deer.

 

Other reasons to get outdoors are fine, but deer hunting itself is threatened if we continue to tell thousands of would-be hunters to stay home.

 

Bill Quimby

Bill is right on the money. I am 36 years old, and when I was a kid units like 6a, and 9 had 2000 deer permits a year! Those were good times with all the family in one big camp and everyone with tags. Just not enough deer left anymore.

[Snapshot]

Bill,

 

What you said makes sense. I am trying to get a handle on the Biologic/Conservation side of things. The particular area I hunt down there (on occasion) is not overrun with immature deer, its just what I see being harvested. There is nothing wrong with taking a meat buck. I harvested a fat 2x 3 mulie down there in 2005 with my Dad. It was the only buck we saw in 4 days of hunting.

 

I took the buck over to Sunsites to have it checked at the CWD check station and chatted with the WM while he cut the needed glands from the buck. Back at camp the next day, a Game and Fish officer stopped by and we got to talking about deer hunting and he showed me a digital picture on his camera of a very nice buck shot down by Bisbee opening day (on private land), but he said that he does not see many mature deer coming from public land in 30B on the general rifle hunts, there are some, he said, but not many. Maybe I should go down there in January sometime and see what can be found during the rut?

 

So it seems to me that most of the breeding age bucks are taking refuge on private or inaccessible land, and its the young deer that are mostly being harvested. What happens if the older age class starts to dissapear?

 

Are there any good books out there on deer biology /management, I Would be interested in reading it.

[billrquimby]

Bill,

 

What you said makes sense. I am trying to get a handle on the Biologic/Conservation side of things. The particular area I hunt down there (on occasion) is not overrun with immature deer, its just what I see being harvested. There is nothing wrong with taking a meat buck. I harvested a fat 2x 3 mulie down there in 2005 with my Dad. It was the only buck we saw in 4 days of hunting.

 

I took the buck over to Sunsites to have it checked at the CWD check station and chatted with the WM while he cut the needed glands from the buck. Back at camp the next day, a Game and Fish officer stopped by and we got to talking about deer hunting and he showed me a digital picture on his camera of a very nice buck shot down by Bisbee opening day (on private land), but he said that he does not see many mature deer coming from public land in 30B on the general rifle hunts, there are some, he said, but not many. Maybe I should go down there in January sometime and see what can be found during the rut?

 

So it seems to me that most of the breeding age bucks are taking refuge on private or inaccessible land, and its the young deer that are mostly being harvested. What happens if the older age class starts to dissapear?

 

Are there any good books out there on deer biology /management, I Would be interested in reading it.

 

Snapshot:

 

Any books I might recommend probably would out of print. Let's ask Amanda to recommend a few recent ones.

 

I remember one with a title that was something like "Our Wildlife Legacy (or was it Heritage?)" that was a great starter, at least for me. When I first came across it thirty years ago, it was a textbook for wildlife management students at the UA. I'm sure Amanda has more recent titles.

 

Don't stop with one book, though. There are lots of books about deer and deer management. Some of the best-known authors are Rue, Geist, Walker and Whitehead, but there are many others, including our own resident expert Jim Heffelfinger, who have written about the natural history of deer.

 

There are said to be about 40 species of deer -- and many dozens of subspecies -- still found on six continents. If you are like me, you will want to learn more about all of them.

 

Bill Quimby