help tuning bow

[Jakedunn]

I need some help with my bow. I cannot for the life of me get my broad heads to pattern. My field tips shoot perfect but when I try and pattern with G5 broad heads they are all over the place. I started from scratch a couple days ago using some instructions off the Internet and set the tiller and used paper to tune it but still the broad heads wont pattern. After an hour of fighting it tonight I shot five broad heads at fifty yards and hit the 3d deer all over the place then shot two field tips and put them in the vitals about an inch apart. That is when I quit to get some help. The only thing I haven't done that I can think of is mess with the alignment of the blades with respect to the fletchings. Would that substantially effect the flight?

Thanks for any help.

[Mr. Jonathan]

ah geez... welcome to the biggest frustration of bowhunting- for me at least. Aerodynamically speaking, aligning the blades with the fletching will do nothing for the flight of your arrow. It has become somewhat of an "old wives tale" but it is irrelevant to the actual flight of the arrow. If your bow is tuned, which it sounds like it is, then more than likely the issue is with how the broadhead sits in relation to the shaft of the arrow. One way to check this is by spin testing the arrow, which allows you to see if there is any oscillation at the tip of the broadhead. This results from the inserts sitting at least than perfect alignment with the shaft of the arrow and or less than perfect alignment between the broadhead and the insert. Its the same concept as when a wheel on a car is out of balance, and will produce an erratic cork-screw type of flight which obviously yields less than desirable results. Another thing to check would be if you're getting total fletch clearance (assuming you're using a drop away). Last season I tried and tried to get the G5 montecs to fly for me, but in the end I just couldn't achieve the grouping that I wanted and elected to go with a different head. This season I've made some changes in my rest and will give them a try again. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[stalkincoues]

I know how you feel, that can be terribly frustrating. Make sure you are not torquing your bow and have a relaxed grip and are not grabbing at the bow. The tiller is actually not all that important to be the same top and bottom. You can actually have one limb adjusted more or less than the other and will shoot fine. I do this to actually fine tune my bow and will help the bow to hold better or worse.

 

Don't bother with the alignment of your blades. I used to when I shot aluminums because it was easy and that was the "in thing", but really didn't see a difference. You said you paper tuned it. Were you getting a perfect bullet hole with your field tips? Broadheads? Your arrows could still be flying semi erradic and the vanes could be correcting your arrow flight, after all that is what they are made to do. When you throw broadheads on they like to show your bows tuning imperfections.

 

Since you are able to paper tune do yourself a favor and strip an arrow or two of the vanes so you have a bare shaft. Step back about 8-12 feet and shoot a few arrows through paper and redo your paper tune. If you bare shaft paper tune an arrow and are able to get bullet holes, then just think how well they will fly when fletched!

 

Which G5 broadheads are you shooting? I have shot both the Montecs and the Strikers. The Montecs are the best flying broadhead I have shot to date. The Strikers fly VERY well also, and that is what I use.

 

The next thing I would do vs. aligning your broadheads is spin test your arrows with your broadheads on them and make sure there is no wobble, this can affect things.

 

Honestly, once I get my bare shaft paper tune to shoot bullet holes I never have problems and it is amazing just how well the bow shoots after that. Hope this helps and keep us posted.

[Jakedunn]

Thanks for the quick response. I just last week took off the whisker and put on the octane rest to try it and I am wondering if I am having some clearance issues now. The paper tuning was also not exactly perfect. It took forever partly because it was way off to start but mainly because I'm an idiot and I kept moving the rest the wrong way. I did finally get it to make bullet holes sometimes but about every other one was slightly off left or right just figured it was me. Any way I guess I am gonna use the powder test to see if the fletchings are contacting the bow also will spin test the arrows. If that doesn't work I am gonna sell my bow and offer someone a bunch of money for theirs.

[bobbyo]

Some questions first. You are saying the broadheads do not grouping at all right. One left, One high,one low ect. If your broadheads were grouping just not at the same point as your field tips then you would need broadhead tuning. If it is bad flying broadheads with no group then it could be a multiple of issues. Broadheads not aligned. Spine of arrow, Your bow is not tuned. slight fletch contact ect. If you gave us all the info about your setup we can probablly point you in the direction that you are having problems. and save a lot of time.

 

Arrow and number: example axis 400.

Weight you are pulling.

speed of bow

length of arrow.

weight of broadhead.

Type of rest.

Type of fletching

type of release

Where are your broadheads hitting. is there a pattern?

 

I suspect your bow is still not in tune or your arrow spine is not compatible. This is just a guess though. You need to get scientific.

Things to try:

1.paper tune with broadheads.

2. bareshaft tune: hard to do for beginners, heck hard to do for anyone very time consuming.

3. Walk back method or French tuning.

4. Use more radical fletching or feathers.

5. Number all your arrows: You need to see if the broadhead in arrow #1 hits in the same spot consistently. If it does change the head to arrow #2 and see where it hits. Is it grouping ect. The reason for this is there are dud arrows and dud broadheads if you have one of each could get very frustrating.

6. Try different broadheads.

7. Buy expandables. Go rockets!

 

Something else I just thought of make sure if you have a drop away it is clearing in time.

Bob

 

Ps first thing I would do is take that drop away off and put on the WB. That may solve the problem quickly. That is a no brainer why waste the time.

[AZWildcat]

I would say number the arrows and see if they are hitting the same spots to make certain it is the arrows and not user error.........then you can mess with the other stuff.

[Firearrow]

Ok first get a beer, then read this over and over until it makes sence. Hopefully you can do most of the set up on your bow, if not go to a pro shop and have them show you how to do it. And if you shoot a wisker bisquet throw it away, and get a driop away rest like the trophy taker. You will never get good arrow flight with a braodhead shooting through a broom.

 

1. Make sure you have the right arrow for your bow, the correct spine. Most carbons fly better with broadheads if the spin is alittle stiff. If you have any questions if it is right or not check with a pro shop.

 

2. Set your tiller even for the top and the bottom, and reset your nock point for what ever it is that gets you a bullet hole. If you are shooting a single cam you need to run a string from the axle to axle. Then use the string for your measurements to set the tiller.

 

3. Shoot through paper until you get a bullet hole. If your nock points is set correctly, nock high or nock low while shooting through paper then leave it alone. The center shot ( having your rest set even for left to right ) should be done by someone who knows what they are doing. It would confuse you to read it then try to do it. Better to have someone show you how to do it. It is realy simple to do.

 

4. Now that the bow is set up initially, you are ready to check your arrows. Your bradheads should be set onto your arrows so that when you put the tip of your broadhead on your finger and spin it you should not feel any wooble. It should be as smooth as glass. If not, try another arrow. If none of them do it you need to replace the inserts, or have the very tips of the arows cut again so that the straight. Then put new inserts in and broadheads in a spin.

 

5. Have a beer.

 

6. Time to shoot the bow. Start out at 20 yds. Shoot the broadheads first, then field points second so that the arrows dont get damaged by the broadheads. Shoot three broad heads. Then shoot three field points. Now we will look at the grouping. If the broadheads group higher than the fieldpoints lower your rest (just a small amount), or raise your nock point until they hit the same spot as your field points. If the broadheads fly lower, then raise your rest, or lower your nock point. Now for the left to right. This is where have your center shoot set up right comes into play. If your braodheads group to the right of your fieldpoints turn your bow weight down 1/8 of a turn until they hit the same spot as your field points. If they fly to the left turn the weight up. Now for some wierd reason this is revered sometimes. I have no idea why, but if they fly further apart, try doing the oppostie. This whole process sets the bow up so that your bow and arrow are set up for each other.

 

7. Once you get this at 20 yds, move back in 10 yds at a time and repeat the process. Any adjustments you make will make it better at the previous yardage. Do this for as far as you feel comfortable. Let me know how this works for you, and I can help you out if you run into snags.

[BigBfever]

Ok first get a beer, then read this over and over until it makes sence. Hopefully you can do most of the set up on your bow, if not go to a pro shop and have them show you how to do it. And if you shoot a wisker bisquet throw it away, and get a driop away rest like the trophy taker. You will never get good arrow flight with a braodhead shooting through a broom.

 

lol +1 with the first sentence

[Az Hunter]

I had a twelve pack and I still don't understand it! Now I have a headache and my bow still won't shoot.

[John O]

This may or may not apply to you, depending on your bow-

 

For split limb bows, the limbs need to be installed in the correct order, or else the bow will be torqued by the unequal forces from the limbs. I had this problem on the dreamseason GX I just bought. The guy at the PSE pro shop kept telling me there was no way to get rid of my right tear, unless I used stiffer spined arrows. I did some research online and guessed that my limbs were in the wrong order. I took it in and sure enough, they were installed wrong. All of a sudden my "underspined" arrows were shooting bullet holes. Also, I shoot montecs and they fly perfectly with my field points, so I would be surprised if the broadhead is the problem. Keep at it.

 

 

 

[Jakedunn]

I skipped the beer and went for the Jack Daniels. I took the bow to the local pro shop and they looked it over and measured everything and couldn't see anything visually wrong. Put the wisker/Broom back on and got it a little better but not perfect. I have no more patience left. I messed with it for an hour and it was 114 degrees outside so I just about got heat stroke. I could get bullets most of the time on paper and even got a pretty good pattern at 20 yards but occasionally one arrow would stray off and even the ones that patterned well visually flew funny like with a wiggle. Gonna check the arrows and try again in the morning when it is cooler. Thanks for the help.

1.Mathew LX

2.5575 gold tip hunter

3.Whisker

4.montek g5

5.67lbs

6.100gr

7.27"

 

Does anyone shoot the whisker with G5 that pattern well?

[GRAYLIGHT]

Sounds like you could be torquing your bow at the shot... Make sure you're not dropping your bow arm at the shot and make certain you are not gripping the bow. Let it press against the meat between your thumb muscle and palm. The bow should fall forward at the shot without you grabbing for the bow. If you notice your bow twitching right or left torsionally at the shot... Fix that first, then move on from there... Just a possibillity, maybe not. I hope it helps...

[krp]

What's your poundage, arrow length, head weight?

 

Almost always your problems are spine issues. Easy to fix but not with adjusting your rest or nock.

 

Tuning is simple if you think about it.

 

Bow =engine. It puts the energy into the arrow and it's adjustable.

 

Arrow equals vehicle delivering the payload. All arrows need to flex and ride on 2 nodes, one front and one back.

 

Broadhead is the payload and must be delivered as square as possible to utilize the KE and penetrate to the max.

 

Once your arrow length and head weight is set, then there is only 'one' poundage your bow will have that will give the optimum flight to your arrows, what's the odds that's what it is set at right now?

 

Underspined and your arrow's are flexing up and down too much and the nodes are not going straight toward the target, they're jumping up and down.

 

Overspined and the back node tries to pass the front one like a big trailer pushing and trying to pass a small vehicle pulling it.

 

Underspined and the arrow settles down the farther out it gets and is accurate at distance.

 

Overspined and it never staightens out and is all over the place the farther out it gets and doesn't hit square losing penetration.

 

I quit paper tuning in the 90's.

 

get arrows at desired length and spine for middle wgt range of bow(65 lbs on a max 70 lb bow)

choose appropriate wgt head. If you went by the chart that will be a 100 gr.

Shoot bow and adjust tiller for feel if you want on a single cam.

set rest and eyeball center shot

set nock with a bow square

Plumb a line from top to bottom on the target.

set one pin on at close range, doesn't matter what it is , just close on the line

Walk back and adjust center shot as far as you want to go depending on your target's height, using the rest, shooting at the line.

At a comfortable longer distance tighten your up and down grouping with your nock or rest.

Depending on what your max distance will be and how well your arrows are grouping with good form, you may want to spine tune with your poundage, go up and down and watch for improvement or worstening of groups. This is more important the further you are trying to shoot. I just always do it.

check broadheads to see if they hit with fieldtips.

practice and set the pins for distance.

 

I can shoot just as well with a WB or dropaway.

 

I don't have to worry as much about form or handtorche, which is important when I'm squatted down leaning around a jackpine shooting at an animal. Seldom can you stand in perfect form like at a target when an animal is present. The more out of tune/spine you are the more important it is to repeat everything in your form so the arrow will repeat it's incorrect motion.

 

If you are in harmony, then it's just energy down a shaft, two nodes headed straight for a target and the broadhead hitting square and solid, once the string is released.

 

Kent

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jakedunn]

Trying out all the ideas, Thanks.

[cmc]

And if you shoot a whisker bisquet throw it away, and get a driop away rest like the trophy taker. You will never get good arrow flight with a braodhead shooting through a broom.

 

 

I disagree. If you can't group through 'the broom' you're not tuned well or have poor form. I include having properly spined arrows with ample vans for the broad heads selected in that tune classification.

 

Since the point doesn't travel 'through' the broom, the arrow shaft does, what tips is on the end is irrelevant in the discussion. Tuning and form are the variables.

 

 

 

I say that as it doesn't matter what broad head I have on the time seem to fly well through the broom at 60yds for me. When they don't it's tune or form that's at fault.

 

cmc