2005 Fall Regs

[coueshunter]

CHD: once again you make this a personal and emotional thread when its supposed to be about deer. I did call you out and you pointed out your lifetime membership etc......you pointed out how YOU are helping CW and ADA et al.....I could throw out the same and more financial support I have personally done but that is pointless...FYI I have three degrees, one in international marketing from International Christian University in Japan 1982, Management degreee from St. Martin's College and Marketing degree from St. Martin's College.......I paid my whole way through college, nobody in my family has.........I understand your statement about how hard it is, I did it..........I am not upset with Josh generalizing because he is right.........booksmarts does not nor will it ever replace common sense........Take an educated person like Todd Buck who has made his living off the Kaibab area with a tax supported job..........he hadnt even counted the actual live deer on the Kaibab..........I cannot sit back and give him a break because he has a degree, its just plain wrong management to not have a handle on what is going on in Todd's backyard...........as for strip projects.........there is one right now scheduled for next week.............get on the www.azdeer.org website and see what they need........I wont be there chris but alot of sportsmen will and it will be good for you to jump in........you have the fire now use it for a good purpose......As for what time I spend on wildlife.......just ask Amanda or wetmule or Muskrat or Bullwidgeon or Lark........I know I am spending alot of time that may or may not help me personally (I have never drawn an elk or muley tag in AZ for the 8 years I have lived here.) But if I dont yell and holler now, my kids Travis and Max will never have the opportunity........Lifetime memberships to ADA are great, but anyone can give money, time is what is so precious........ADA can get 1000.00 from anyone but your time will do more.........ADA board members are burnt out........I am burnt out.........new blood is needed but nobody steps forward.......we now have Sportsmen For Wildlife stepping in and I fear the whole state is going towards Landowner tags and big money........our opportunities keep drying up while we bicker............CHD, right now I have been involved in an email/letter writing campaign that would have been idealy suited for you, the senate bill 339 supporting states rights.........did you jump in and if not, maybe you could be the point man for issues like this.........it appears that this bill has passed through and working its way to George Bush's desk.........this will nulify the USO ruling and will be good for all of us.........we all need to be more informed and do our part where our personal strengths are best suited..........I dont know what my strengths are but I will try and keep speaking up for wildlife and do my part where I feel I can best help I dont want anymore peter measuring contest, just SOMEONE GET UP AND HELP, DONATE YOUR TIME AND EFFORTS TO A CAUSE WE ALL FEEL PASSIONATELY ABOUT......thanks.......Allen.......................

[Guest Ernesto C]

Yaahhooooo!! Oh yea baby!! Life is so beatifull!!

 

Man sometimes I dont understand this people with a lots of education,degrees,etc etc. Allen is right,"booksmarts does not nor will it ever replace common sense" and yeap unfortunally there are lots of people with no common sense.

Some people think that just because they have more degrees or more money they have the rigth to do dumm things and/or disrespect others in many different ways....why did they learn in school when getting all those degrees?

 

Chris you have an open invitation from Allen to join him or joing some other organizations to help wildlife;you mentioned you where going to do it on your own and that's very good,good for you.

 

I personally wish I could have more time and more $$$ to help but I help every time I can and with what I can. I will not let you know how I help or with how much I contribute becuase the Lord tells me to keep that for my self,he will have a reward for me. Dont let your right hand know what left hand is doing.

 

I dont have any degrees,but common sense tells me I have respect others regardles of education,position or skin color. Please read the book of Matthew chapter 22 versus 36 to 40.

 

Later my fellow members and God bless America, AMEN.

[az4life]

Great posts from several mambers.

I agree with the post from Lee, so please post information on ADA needs and activities. I have a lot on my plate like most of us, but these posts have encouraged me to participate as more than an echo in the crowd. I want to enjoy AZ wildlife and leave something better for the next generations too.

[Redbeard]

It still amazes me that even after doing a survey to determine there are 75% fewer deer than their previous estimates they still double tags and issue doe tags. Tell me they are managing for deer not dollars.

 

About the ADA I admit that I never considered joining and here's why. A good friend who a couple years ago tried very hard to get involved with the Mule Deer Association or maybe it was the ADA by then. He was treated like an outsider to some elite group of self appointed leaders. In spite of all offers to participate in a meaningful way he was basically run off. I have had the same experience with the ABA and some other hunter organizations in AZ. It seems like sometimes they become these exclusive clubs of a bunch of buddies. Now before you go off on me let me say that I'm not saying that's the way all organizations are and it sounds like the ADA has come around and is doing good things for the right reasons and reaching out to hunters so keep up the good work. I may come to a meeting or project to help out and maybe get more involved myself. I just have a lot of irons in the fire and really don't want to spread myself too thin unless I feel like my time is making a difference and is appreciated. I am very grateful for all of the people who sacrifice their time and money to do these sorts of things. It is a thankless job sometimes and very frustrating too. I sometimes can make it to AGFD meetings and am involved in other conservation organizations too so I do my small part. You are right that the deer need more help than elk and hopefully the good work of you guys in the ADA will pay off for everybody. I thank you for your efforts.

 

Chris Dunn

[crotalus]

Well, I have to agree that this has been an interesting string. As I read all the postings I couldn't help but add one of my own. IMHO, Chris provides a very nice, all be it sometimes abrasive, balance. I admire his courage to stand up and yell "STOP" when he feels that the lemmings (previously posted as "lemurs"!) are headed over the cliff. Please don't misunderstand the analogy. I read his postings and am glad that there is an opposing and different view. Personal attacks by anyone don't help, thanx Ernesto for providing the Biblical insight. Forums are "discussion zones" not "agreement zones", in the end it is my hope that when we walk away from any forum we walk away better persons and better educated on the subject matter. Whether or not you agree with a particular view is not what matters but how much more educated on the subject you become is what's important. Finally, thanx to everyone who has provided great and different points of view. Remember abrasives are used to "polish" or prepare a surface not ruin it. I think we can all walk away better people now.....

Ernest

[.270]

lemurs? ain't it lemmings?

[crotalus]

ya, it's lemmings..... thanx for the clarification! Man, it's scary when a good mind goes to waste......to many years spent under the sun in the great out of doors......... LOL.

Ernest

[CouesWhitetail]

Some very useful information in this thread. Like Crotalus I like to see the differing viewpoints. However, I would appreciate it people could refrain from using personal attacks in their posts. I just don't see the point in insulting and offending people. You can question someone's ideas and prompt good discussions without using personal insults.

 

The whole Kaibab issue is amazing and I am glad to be a part of the ADA at time when we are funding the aerial surveys and working toward better management up there. Aerial surveys are very expensive and the AGFD can't really afford to do high-quality aerial surveys every year throughout the state. The Kaibab survey got done because the ADA stepped up and helped out with funding and passion and on the ground knowledge of the area by some of our board members.

 

If you are interested in joining the ADA or coming to a meeting, go to AZDEER.ORG to learn more.

 

We have our annual public meeting on Wednesday May 18 at 6:30 pm in Tempe. Go to the website for more info and directions. This would be a great meeting to come to for first-timers. You can voice an opinion and even volunteer to help or perhaps be a board member. We need more sportsmen and women to get involved. Harping on how AGFD isn't managing your wildlife correctly isn't useful unless you are actually doing something to change the situation. If enough people push for fewer tags, then it will happen. Otherwise AGFD generally manages for maximum sportsmen opportunity to hunt.

 

Amanda

[Redbeard]

Well said Amanda.

 

I disagree that the AGFD can't afford to do quality surveys. There are 6000 people applying for strip tags every year. That's $30,000 in application fees alone. What they need to do is rethink how they are spending money and remember where it comes from.

[DesertBull]

If you think it is bad now, just wait. It is only a matter of time before the state raids the Heritage fund and other G&F revenues. I heard they are trying to grab the money that G&F raises off boat registrations now.

[couesdiehard]

Amanda;

Thanks for your input. I agree that this is the place where different opinions should be heard. There really is no need for personal attacks. It is great to get controversial once in a while because a healthy dialogue is a learning experience. I think G & F does manage for the most hunter opportunities (read: more tag dollars) in the short-term. But if you damage the herd beyond a certain point you won't be able to sell any tags there. That's why it makes more sense to me to charge license fees up front to apply then G & F gets revenue from residents and non-residents whether they are successful in the draw or not. Then you should use these funds to manage for trophy quality which generates more applicants and therefore funds.

Thanks for the opportunity to discuss something we all obviously care a lot about. I will check out the AZDEER.ORG site today!

Lee

[CHD]

Wow, where have all you deep thinkers and deeeeeeeper posters been for a while??? Why don't you all post more often??? What does it take, huh? I've been reduced to reading the mindless, torturing shallowness of az4life and .25-06 all winter. If you need better, more stimulating topics, just say so, and I'll turn the badger loose! Just ask!

 

First of all, I'm gonna forward your comments about me being thin-skinned and emotional to my friends and family and co-workers. They have never heard of such a thing from me, and will enjoy them immensely! Can't wait to see 'em laugh and describe me as a sensitive guy! The useless, pathetic bureaucrats here will definitely call bs on this one! This news may actually make the front page of the GJ Daily Sentinel!

 

I am mean, nasty, tired and pissed off. No joking. I have lost my patience for shallow hypocrites and grown men with LWS. I just ain't in the mood to be Mr. Effin Diplomacy anymore. I have a bullsheet detector that goes off all day long, even in the restaurants at lunch. Croatalus, my middle name is indeed 'abrasive'. Another appropriate name for me is 'prick'. A great big one. So Josh, the next time you put down others just to make yourself look good on a public forum, expect to hear from me, okay?

 

The ADA has a really good mission and I fully support them. I was flabbergasted to learn that a REAL deer count had never been done on the 'bab. This is unbelievable to me. The $$$ ADA spent on this was WELL WORTH IT! Congrats board members, VERY good call. But there is more work to do to justify fewer tags there. I'm no mule deer biologist, but here are my thoughts. Gotta do a winter range vegetation survey using QUALIFIED, CREDIBLE people and then compare the methodology of the study as well as the results with the state's. Gotta make the results VERY public (make friends with some newspaper reporters.........that's what I do) and put on a big show in the press and at the commission meeting. Also gotta develop a reasonable buck harvest recommendation based on a reasonable (this will be debated fiercely!) mature buck population objective in order to provide a quality hunting experience for everyone who is fortunate enough to draw a tag for this wonderful, world-class unit. The Kaibab, similar to the Uncompahgre Plateau (another incredible, disgusting, vile, putrid state mismanagement story) in western Colorado, is a textbook case in being intended (by mother nature) for a quality unit, not a quantity one. The rare places that can grow huge bucks should be managed for them. That is just plain RIGHT. A forky can be whacked everywhere. Why ruin a rare, great place for the the quantity hunters? Give the quantity hunters their 'hunter opportunities' elsewhere.

 

I really enjoy the Strip and will look for any excuse to spend a few days there. Trust me. Even installing a synthetic liner in a pond or laying some pipeline or whatever. I have a few tools and a semi-strong back. I'll be contacting ADA about their schedule for work on the Strip in the future. Heck I can be in St. George in 6 hours.

 

Oh, and BTW..............these are all just my opinions, of course.

[coueshunter]

Chris, there is a project in 13b this weekend, get ahold of Don Martin: Mohave Sportsmen Club......Amanda can get the info posted here on the work project. As to the vegetation survey, its done and was done by a group of biologists that work with AZGFD on a regular basis. Logan Simpson Design Group. The information was presented to the commission and AZGFD if I am not mistaken and they chose to delay any action........We have a meeting scheduled for the Kaibab in the next couple weeks with the commissioners and other appropriate personell from various groups......the mission is to see in the field exactly what Logan Simpson is talking about........there have been and continues to be very important issues in all western states regarding wildlife. I am totally pleased with Reid's bill passing and being signed by GW........Bringing back states rights is the best thing to do.......CHD, I hope you are serious and really want to jump in with ADA and help out......Take care.......AT......

[wetmule]

Redbeard,

Just a few thoughts on some of what you have said. You stated that you never considered joining the ADA because someone told you that we were a bunch of self appointed leaders and had an elitist attitude. I believe I know who you are referring to and I can tell you that there are two sides to every story and you haven't heard both. I can assure you that everyone involved has their hearts in the right places and is in it for the right reasons and everyone is very down to earth and hard working with busy jobs & families etc. and all of us are stretched thin with lots of irons in the fire, much like alot of you. As far as I know we are the only organization that is trying to help our states deer herds and their habitat, while at the same time trying to hold the dept. somewhat accountable without totally pissing them off. We have supported them on lots of issues and differed on others and I'm sure we have, I know, we have pissed off or at least frustrated alot of Dept. employees while trying to help AZ's deer. You said in an earlier post that you've made posts a long time ago about managing the deer herd and still nothing has changed. You also said that we need to stand up and demand that the G&F does the right thing, we need to play hardball and get them on the run. I can assure you that NOTHING will change unless you and others get involved. Making posts on the internet probably isn't going to have much of an effect. I think everyone that loves coues deer and mule deer and enjoys hunting them should be a member of the ADA. We are fighting as hard as we possibly can for YOUR rights as AZ Sportsmen and as Women and as AZ deer hunters; and we are fighting as hard as we possibly can to improve AZ's deer herds and their habitat, given the limited resources and extremely limited manpower that we have. Did you know that throughout this state we have an estimate of close to, I believe, 500 broken and dysfunctional wildlife drinkers that the Dept. was unaware of? We made them aware of it and through a couple years and lots of hard work, meetings, frustration and sweat they now have a water program in place to fix or replace them. To be fair to the Dept., many of them are BLM owned, but a large percentage are owned by the Dept. We are also funding alot of the repairs and refurbishing of the Drinkers and trick tanks. Did you know that when Pres. Clinton created the Parashant Natl. Monument on the Strip, the Sierra Club in Partnership with the Grand Canyon Trust started a ad campaign to shut down the monumnent, close the roads, turn it into wilderness, severely limit access to our public lands? If you wanted to horseback in the monument they wanted your horse to be wearing diapers. We actively campaigned and opposed these steps. The Monuments status and use issue has yet to be determined. These are some of the issues we are facing and fighting to protect for you and other sportsmen and women. Unless you are a member or are in some way involved, these are issues that you are probably not going to hear much about. We need all of your help and without it we will fail and the issues and the wildlife that are so important to all of us will suffer and the politicians and beaurocrats will make those decisions for us.

[wetmule]

RB,

Ended my post before I could thank you, must have been sick of typing on that long winded post. Anyways, thanks for acknowledging us and the efforts we've put forth with the ADA. Thanks for at least considering getting involved with us, sounds like you already do some wildlife conservation work. There have been a couple others on this thread that have said they would like to get more involved if their time allows. All I would say is we'd love to have you or anyone else that has an interest, we could use the help. Personally I'd like to see some more coues people get involved to help us out with their knowledge of coues and their habitat and the Game management units that they hang out in. Some of the units you guys hang out in may have problems or need help & improvements in some way with water, habitat, predators or whatever it may be. If we had that knowledge and expertise in those areas through your insight and guidance we could do something about it. Anyways, thanks very much !