Fee Increases for next year

[johnnie blaze]

Didnt all this NR nonsense start from NR's complaining? Seems that I recall something like this, or was it just some kinda rumor?

[TLH]

It started when the USO sued the department for more than 10% of the tags we give to NR. It is a shame that that one person could change the way the game and fish has to do business. If the law suit would have stuck (which it didn't after Senator Reid did the only good thing he has ever done and made the states in control of all big game animals and wildlife with in their state borders) but when he gave that rule change to Pres. Bush and "W" signed it USO lost their butts on everything they spent to fight the AZ game and Fish to get more tags--unfortunately it cost the game and fish a lot of money that they and the state did not have to spend. The 9th Circus court actually upheld the suit and found in favor of USO but Reid killed them dead with that one little good dead he did.

[TexasHunter]

That's a wonderful idea! Everyone else should stop buying licenses and entering the drawings so the AZGFD "Burocrats" will "loose" capital. If you do, maybe I'll be able to get another elk tag before they pat me on the face with a shovel ...

 

It has been a half century since I took all those political science, statistics and economics classes at the UA, but it seems to me that we very soon will see inflated prices on everything we buy, and not just hunting licenses and tags. It's the only way out of the mess that the politicians from both parties have brought upon us.

 

A $69 zillion deficit won't seem as large to voters when gasoline costs $100 gallon, bread is $18.00 loaf, a box of .22 ammo is $175 and a pair of jeans is $2,350. Not to worry, though. Minimum wage will be $700 hour, and wages of everyone else will be proportionally higher as it always is.

 

Unfortunately, the first people to be hurt by runaway inflation are those of us on fixed incomes. Although I have a Pioneer's license, I and other retirees won't be able to afford the $14,950 price of a resident elk tag, to say nothing about the $1,100 application fee!

 

If you think I am exaggerating, consider this: In 1948, I bought my first hunting license for $3 and my first deer tag for $1. A new Chevrolet or Ford pickup truck cost $750, gasoline was $0.11 gallon, cigarettes were $0.12 pack, minimum wage was $0.50 hour, and union construction workers made $4,800 year. I bought my first "deer" rifle -- a used .303 Model 99 Savage -- with two boxes of ammo for $35 that year.

 

In 1969, my wife and I bought a new 2,150-square-foot house on an acre in the foothills above Tucson for $21,500. Five years later, we bought two acres on a creek in Greer with forest service land on two sides for $7,500. We also bought new 1,100-square-foot townhouses for rentals in Green Valley in the 1970s for $10,000 and $11,000. Two years ago, we bought a 40-year-old, 500-square-foot home three blocks from the UA for our grandson to live in while going to school for $165,000.

 

I tell you this to show that the per-square-foot cost of homes grew from $10 in 1969 to $330 in just 40 years.

 

Mark my words. There was a time when a million dollars would buy what a billion dollars does now, and it won't be long before a trillion is worth only what a billion is now. Everyone who has any equity at all in a home will be a millionaire.

 

Let me know if you need any help in organizing your boycott. I have a degree in Marketing and worked for several advertising and public relations agencies early in my career, and I will gladly help you get the word out pro bono.

 

Bill Quimby

 

This is the exact elitist attitude that will ruin this country. The reason our gorvernment is so screwed up is because we as citizens are to lazy, uneducated and frankly selfish to stand up to what they do. They know they will get away with pretty much whatever they want because as citezens we stand by and let them rape our rights, squander our tax money and pretty much run this country into the ground. They do all this as we sit by and say well I can still afford it or I am to old to see the benefits of change or even what can I really do .

 

If I am going to organize a boycot I surely wouldnt want to steal what good days you have left waisting time trying to make a difference for future generations. Besides how much help can a washed up marketing exec who "knows" economics because he took a couple classes once fifty years provide any way.

 

O by the way to the "it is going to hurt us on a fixed income the most" statement. When is the last time you whent hunting without a guide. Wish I had a "fixed" income.

 

Sorry if I offended anyone but I hate nothing more then sarcasem when it comes to the future of not only our favorite hobby but our great nation.

[WinMag]

We have control of this. If we as hunters stood together and boycoted the AZGFD by not getting licsences and applying for tags they would loose capital and have to CHANGE the way they are trying to do buisness. I know it would suck but just support another state such as New Mexico or even hunt mexico. The only way to get it accross to them ( Burocrats ) that we wont be looked at as dollar sighns is to hit them where it hurts the pocket book. I for one, when and if the fees for an instate tag hit that high, will not hunt fish or other in AZ any more.

 

 

I agree 100%....Why do you think the State just last month lowered the State Trust Land permits fee's back lower again after they raised them last year?

 

I for one let mine expire and did not re-new it at thier BS price that they came up with. Now that they lost revenue and have lowered the price back down to a reasonable price I will again run the trails legal with a permit. Also when others that did the same renew thier permits they will make the money back in time that they lost when they tried to RAPE the public on thier own land.

 

Our Govt' sucks these days and it is only going to get worse in the future with what we have leading us. Unless we as people make the change ourselves.

[SO I HUNT]

Well I hate to say this, BUT I think if they were to raise the cost of tags and licences so far out of reach for most people I can see alot poaching happening and that is a shame period!!!!!! This is just my .02 cents worth

[billrquimby]

>>>>>>"This is the exact elitist attitude that will ruin this country. The reason our gorvernment is so screwed up is because we as citizens are to lazy, uneducated and frankly selfish to stand up to what they do. They know they will get away with pretty much whatever they want because as citezens we stand by and let them rape our rights, squander our tax money and pretty much run this country into the ground. They do all this as we sit by and say well I can still afford it or I am to old to see the benefits of change or even what can I really do ">>>>>>>>

 

If realizing when others have fallen off the deep end is a criteria, then I am guilty of possessing an elitist attitude, Mr. Texas Hunter.

 

Boycotts do not change government agencies because boycotts do not threaten the employees who make the decisions, Mr. Texas Hunter. When an agency's income source is threatened, it simply seeks another. Arizona's Game and Fish Department merely would develop a different base of support among non-hunters and anti-hunters, and go after other types of funding if hunting license revenues were to drastically decline.

 

With the wisdom that comes with a few more years under your belt, Mr. Texas Hunter, you may realize that loyalty to an historic source of funding means little to a bureaucrat. What government agencies do best is survive and expand.

 

>>>>>>>>."If I am going to organize a boycot I surely wouldnt want to steal what good days you have left waisting time trying to make a difference for future generations. Besides how much help can a washed up marketing exec who "knows" economics because he took a couple classes once fifty years provide any way.>>>>>>>>>>

 

Washed up? Mr. Texas Hunter, I still know more about public relations and how to get the news out than you could ever hope to know. My offer still stands, and please don't worry about the time I have left on this planet. If you want to lead a boycott, there's still enough time to get your story to Arizona's hunters through our state's newspapers and radio and television stations, and I still know how to get them to use it.

 

As for those future generations you speak about, Mr. Texas Hunter, I would require anonymity if I were to publicize your cause. I don't want historians to know I was even remotely involved in what will become known as the demise of hunting as a tool of wildlife management in Arizona if your boycott succeeds. You can be certain I'll see that you get all the credit you deserve.

 

>>>>>>>>"O by the way to the "it is going to hurt us on a fixed income the most" statement. When is the last time you whent hunting without a guide. Wish I had a "fixed" income.<<<<<<<<<<

 

Mr. Texas Hunter, I have hunted whitetails and mule deer in Arizona for all but one of 62 consecutive seasons. The best I can figure, my 2008 mule deer was Arizona deer number 50 or 51. I have never needed a guide for an Arizona deer or for the 45-50 Texas whitetails I took back when I hunted the Hill Country regularly.

 

If I'm lucky in the drawings this year, Mr. Texas Hunter, I expect to kill another buck north of Willcox in November, and I won't have a guide.

 

Please know, Mr. Texas Hunter, that I've also taken eight bull elk, more than 50 javelinas, more turkeys than I can remember, and seven or eight pronghorns in Arizona, and all were taken without guides. Nor did I need a guide when I shot a whitetail and maybe a dozen antelope in Wyoming, a mule deer in New Mexico and an elk in Colorado. I also hunted plains game without a guide on land owned by friends on my last three trips to Africa.

 

I also have successfully guided friends to deer, elk, javelinas, turkeys and antelope in Arizona and Wyoming on many occasions, Mr. Texas Hunter.

 

As for my income, Mr. Texas Hunter. It's none of your business. I don't know how much you earn, but I suspect it's more than my wife and I have to live on in our retirement.

 

However, whatever you and I have is unimportant, Mr. Texas Hunter. Your income can be expected to increase as the inevitable Bush/Obama inflation comes about (I may have studied economics a half century ago, but mark my words: inflation definitely is coming) and as you progress in your career. Mine will not.

 

>>>>>>"Sorry if I offended anyone but I hate nothing more then sarcasem when it comes to the future of not only our favorite hobby but our great nation.">>>>>>>>>>>

 

I accept your apology for your odious offensiveness, Mr. Texas Hunter. You obviously cannot help it. However, please note that hunting is not my hobby, and never has been. It has been my obsession, the source of my livelihood, and my way of life for more than twice the years that you have breathed. If you truly want to protect our hunting heritage, Mr. Texas Hunter, you would not call for boycotts. You would search for new ways to provide more hunting for more hunters all across America and the world. Without numbers, we hunters surely will lose what we now enjoy.

 

Incidentally, Mr. Texas Hunter, I have pet peeves also. High on my list are those who offend and belittle others but are unwilling to sign their acerbic posts, or even provide the barest details about themselves in their member profiles.

 

Bill Quimby

[elkaholic]

hello - i was doing great till - " acerbic "- glad I got a dictionary handy - it must be the summer heat - lots of fervent opinions lately - Gary

[Birddog]

Can't wait for those draw results! Then everyone can go back to being friends. :lol: j/k

 

Just tryin to lightin the mood around here. Everyone seems a little tence. Must be the wait.

[coues krazy]

Now that was a classic butt chewing! Hate to say it, but he had that one coming. Good luck to all in the draw!

[Schmitty]

Now that was a classic butt chewing!

 

the keyboard is mightier than the sword!

[johnnie blaze]

WOW....I wish Mr. Cowgill was still on this earth to witness that Mr. Quimby.

[TexasHunter]

e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism (-ltzm, -l-)

n.

1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.

2.

a. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.

b. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Incase you were not sure what it meant.

 

Lets not pretend that your smug retort to my original post was not meant to belittle or ostrisize me in any way, it may not have been acerbic but....

 

You are correct boycotts do not threaten the employees of government agencies rather the government who places those employees into thier respected positions. Boycotts and public outcry is the basis of our government."Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right ...." Abraham Lincoln.

 

The reason more people are simpathetic to the anti hunters and greens cause is because they are the loudest, they protest everthing, even things I as a hunter would protest ,such as Mike Vick. We must be willing to do just as much as they are to protect our cause and appathy is not going to help. So I ask, are you happy with what you believe is coming? I dont think you are and I know I sure aint. So what do we do about it? Complain on a forum? Right some letters to our reps? If we want to be heard as loud as opposition we must yell as loud as them. We need not worry about recriutment rather stop waisting time fighting against each other and band together to fight for our cause.

 

Make no mistake about why tags are increasing. It has little to do with increasing reveneu and a lot to do with dwindelling the number of hunters down as to make the fight agianst hunters easier.Why do you think they hold the meetings at the same time as banquets or oppening days? They want to limit the amount of access we have to publicly voice our opinions. Can't you read between the lines of what is going on? Limited ammo production and sales. Preposed tax increases on wepons ammo and hunting permits. They are trying to push us out of our "HOBBY", because no matter how obsessed you are with a hobby its still a hobby, of weapons ,hunting and such. That means the end result will be the end of AZGFD as a tool for wildlife management any way. Would you not rather fight to rectify the situation.

 

Don't mistake my age for naivety I understand that what government angencies do best is survive and expand. So what must we do? Threaten the means as to wich that agency has grown accustom to using for survival. The benifit from being loyal to an agency is only reaped when you use it to your advantage, like when questioning said agency. If you dont you are just one of the people they are after. Willing to go with the satus quo and pay whatever they ask. A tool so to speak.

 

I feel no need to sign any post as it says who wrote the post on the left of the page, but apparently that makes the post more relevent and less offensive if you do. As for little info in my profile I didn't know this was a dating service. What would you like to know. I am a 27 year old mechanic born in the hill country in Texas moved to Tucson when my parents divorced. I run a small buisness and am in school to finish what I should have done right after highschool. I have been hunting and fishing since I was in diapers. I am six foot two two hundred pounds and a Libra. I have shot 2 coues deer none of wich are big and helped a friend shoot one that was also small. I try and go out hunting or fishing every weekend.

 

Rick

[billrquimby]

Thanks for the definition, Rick, but I have made my living for a long time by selling words, and I already knew what elitism means.

 

I also know how to spell words such as “ostracize,” “their,” “sympathetic,” “revenue,” “dwindling,” “which,” “everything,” “apathy,” “against,” “recruitment,” “benefit,” “wasting,” “opening,” ”proposed,” “high school,” “weapons,” “business,” “status,” “relevant,” and “agencies.” I also know the difference between “right” and “write” and “it’s” and “its,” and when “accustom” should be “accustomed,” when apostrophes should or should not be used, and that “Coues” should always begin with a capital letter when writing about the little white-tailed deer we all love.

 

Be that as it may, let’s apply your dictionary’s definition to someone who believes his group is entitled to control, rule or dominate a state wildlife agency. He ignores that, by law, the agency must protect, enhance and conserve wildlife for all citizens, and not just his group. I ask you: could not/should not that person be called an “elitist”?

 

>>>>>>>>“Lets not pretend that your smug retort to my original post was not meant to belittle or ostrisize me in any way, it may not have been acerbic but...>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Please read my original post again. I did not attack someone named Rick Whatshisname. What I did was indicate my belief his boycott proposal would accomplish little. Although my second post leaves no doubt how I feel about being called an “elitist” and “washed up,” and a fat cat unable to hunt without a guide, I have not stooped to calling him names.

 

As for ol’ Abe, he was right on! Americans do have the right to rise up and form a new government. Problem is, he also should have said we must be careful how we use that right. The bromide about being cautious about what we wish for because we might get it would never be more true than if our game department were to be restructured. Look around, Rick. Hunters are vastly outnumbered, and there are people other than hunters who want more say in how and for whom the agency conducts its business. Sad to say, they have more clout than we do in the Legislature and the governor’s office.

 

>>>>>>>>>”The reason more people are simpathetic to the anti hunters and greens cause is because they are the loudest, they protest everthing, even things I as a hunter would protest ,such as Mike Vick. We must be willing to do just as much as they are to protect our cause and appathy is not going to help. So I ask, are you happy with what you believe is coming? I dont think you are and I know I sure aint. So what do we do about it? Complain on a forum? Right some letters to our reps? If we want to be heard as loud as opposition we must yell as loud as them. We need not worry about recriutment rather stop waisting time fighting against each other and band together to fight for our cause.”>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

If you are asking if I unhappy with the decline in the number of hunters in America and Arizona, you’re darned right I am. Our numbers have been shrinking for the past forty years, and this needs to change. Just four decades ago, one in ten Americans hunted. Today it is only about one in twenty seven. It is not getting better, Rick. There will come a day when all hunting will be put to a vote, and we will lose unless our numbers can somehow grow before then.

 

Although it didn't help much, in my time I did my part in trying to slow the decline. As a journalist, I attended and reported on for close to thirty years nearly every AZG&F Commission meeting, and nearly every meeting of the U.S. Forest Service, BLM and National Park Service that might affect sportsmen in Arizona. I campaigned in newspaper columns and magazine articles for hunters’ rights, supported hunting organizations and donated my time and money to many causes to protect our heritage. I traveled on press junkets to Washington and across the West and covered wilderness, habitat, access, and wildlife issues as they developed, and earned a few awards and accolades for doing my job. What I learned after chasing all kinds of windmills is that we cannot combat our enemies by yelling louder. We need numbers.

 

<<<<<<<<”Make no mistake about why tags are increasing. It has little to do with increasing reveneu and a lot to do with dwindelling the number of hunters down as to make the fight agianst hunters easier.Why do you think they hold the meetings at the same time as banquets or oppening days? They want to limit the amount of access we have to publicly voice our opinions. Can't you read between the lines of what is going on? Limited ammo production and sales. Preposed tax increases on wepons ammo and hunting permits. They are trying to push us out of our "HOBBY", because no matter how obsessed you are with a hobby its still a hobby, of weapons ,hunting and such. That means the end result will be the end of AZGFD as a tool for wildlife management any way. Would you not rather fight to rectify the situation.”>>>>>>>>>>>

 

I’m not certain what you mean. You say tags are increasing because Game and Fish is purposely “dwindelling the number of hunters down (so) as to make the fight against hunters easier.” There must be some logic there, but I can’t see it. I always thought more tags meant more hunters.

 

As for the threats you seem to believe have appeared only recently, if you read through this post you will see I spent most of my life fighting to "rectify the situation."

 

Incidentally, someone needs to tell you that it is hunters who are considered a tool of wildlife management. The AZGFD is our state's wildlife management authority.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Don't mistake my age for naivety I understand that what government angencies do best is survive and expand. So what must we do? Threaten the means as to wich that agency has grown accustom to using for survival. The benifit from being loyal to an agency is only reaped when you use it to your advantage, like when questioning said agency. If you dont you are just one of the people they are after. Willing to go with the satus quo and pay whatever they ask. A tool so to speak.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

What will it take to make you realize that the response of an agency to a loss of funding is to seek money from other sources? There is a huge constituency waiting to replace us. Threats from hunters will only force a wildlife agency to embrace that constituency sooner. The Arizona Game and Fish Department is not yet our adversary. At this date, it still is one of the few state agencies on our side.

 

I>>>>>>>>>I feel no need to sign any post as it says who wrote the post on the left of the page, but apparently that makes the post more relevant and less offensive if you do. As for little info in my profile I didn't know this was a dating service. What would you like to know. I am a 27 year old mechanic born in the hill country in Texas moved to Tucson when my parents divorced. I run a small buisness and am in school to finish what I should have done right after highschool. I have been hunting and fishing since I was in diapers. I am six foot two two hundred pounds and a Libra. I have shot 2 coues deer none of wich are big and helped a friend shoot one that was also small. I try and go out hunting or fishing every weekend. Rick >>>>>>>>>

 

Glad to meet you, Rick. You have your peeves, and I have mine. One of mine is not knowing who is hiding behind the pseudonym calling me names. Now that I know your first name, I suppose you're entitled to know a bit more about me.

 

I was born on my grandfather’s ranch in Tucson in 1936, attended K-12 in Yuma, worked my way through the UA, and have lived in the same home in Tucson for more than forty years with my wife of fifty-two years. We now divide our time between Tucson and a cabin we built with our own hands in Greer. After graduating college, I worked in public relations and advertising for a few years before spending the rest of my life as an outdoor writer and columnist, editor, publisher and author of hunting titles. I shot my first mule deer near Prescott at age twelve in 1948 and since then have taken all ten Arizona big game species. I was six feet, four inches tall when I was your age, but may have shrunk some with advanced orneriness.

 

Hunting has not been my hobby, but the source of my livelihood directly or indirectly for the majority of my life, even in my retirement. After heart problems caused me to leave my post as SCI’s director of publications in 1999, I have written and sold thirteen books about international big game hunting. Nearly all of my book income and a portion of our Social Security checks and 401K withdrawals have been spent sending our grandchildren (one of whom is your age) to universities.

 

Undoubtedly I would have made more money by following what my education trained me to do, but I was and am obsessed with hunting. This led me to an occupation that ultimately took me to twenty-four countries on six continents. I not only hunted in a number of those countries, but I also met or interviewed some of the world’s best-known hunters, conservationists, politicians, celebrities, and wildlife experts -- as well as several founders of major anti-hunting organizations. I also served as a member of a daily newspaper's editorial board in the early 1990s, and when Arizona's politicians sought our board's endorsement for their programs I was able to sneak in a few minor, behind-the-scenes victories for hunters.

 

You may be correct in saying I'm all washed up now, but I still remember a few things. Chief among them is this: As our numbers decline, so does our clout.

 

Bill Quimby

[elkaholic]

hello - I see the sparing has stepped up a bit since I last checked in ! Entertaining read to say the vary least - So after 2 rounds I got the score 2 to 0 for Bill. Rick - one warning for low blows , let's keep it above the belt from here on out . ---- Gary

[krp]

Not getting in the Bill and Rick debate but political clout is something we need to look at and some are discussing this right now on MM. It's a new political arena today and if we look at how other small in percentage but large in influence groups do it, that may be the answer.

 

Here's a repeat of my post during the brainstorming session.

 

I honestly believe we are looking at the answer. Our society and lives are being changed by public opinion driven by 'Blogs', if that's the correct term, not reason and logic. We have to adapt to this style of getting the message out. It's telling how fast a responce we received from the dept when we took the issue to the public on these websites concerning the A/B tags and price increases. I again want to thank Mr. Wakeling for answering in a timely manner.

We need to expand on this. If untruthfulness can change our country because of the power of ’Blogging'. Then maybe the truth will regain it’s power doing the same.

 

I can see in the near future a dedicated blogging site for G&F issues in this state that the hunting public can express themselves from their computers on issues, polls constructed by anyone on any issue and even petitions to take to the Legislature. We can sway public opinion also, took us this long to see it. I can see this expanding to emailing alerts to all licensed hunters in a data base and putting real political pressure right back on. We will not be ‘onesided’ by the G&F political spin machine anymore. This case here wasn’t spin, just some info added without explanation, a learning experience.

 

The power of a blogging site is that everyone can see what others are feeling about an issue and can discuss it together. There will never be total agreement but it is evident how the majority feel. Just having an email response doesn’t allow everyone to see what other’s are saying and the political spinners can cherry pick the responses that suit them. Giving a few minutes at a commission meeting doesn’t get the back and forth for new ideas to develop.

 

In the past we have went through channels individually or in specialized groups and therefore separated and defeated. We’ve tried the reasonable and logical responses to the political spin and propaganda shoved our way and feel frustrated and powerless. We can only sit around dumbfounded for so long before we realize we can use the same tactics that are changing our country and state to our advantage.

 

If I was the G&F, I would be the first to add this to my site. Not that you will be able to control the responses, but it would be a win politically, it’s coming one way or another.

 

Kent