Novice hunter

[alexjh1]

I am a novice hunter and tried my hand at bow hunting, got lucky on a bull Elk 6 years ago, so went after whitetail deer 3 years ago, I will pause a second to give all of you a second to stop laughing...ha ha. I came across a couple of deer and one buck usually ranging from 60 - 250 yards, and mostly a flash of white made me think I should start out rifle hunting for these beautiful animals. No glassing, spot and stalk.. (Unit 36c)

 

Last year I finally got drawn in unit 29 for them, took my 15 year old who is interested in the sport. Plan was to find a spot and just glass. First few days out, I really struggled with access to public land, it was almost as if strips of land were sold to block access to public land. I bought maps before my next trip out. Every land owner there posted signs no hunting every 20 yrds or so. Oh, by the way, white tail deer sit right inside those fences, all times of the day, and if they could smile, I think they were. Very funny funny though and my kid enjoyed the sightings.

 

Finally found access sat high and must have seen 50-70 deer however 99.9% of them were does a couple of javelina. I glassed a couple of bucks (2)about a mile away, to far to move on. Tried to get accross a canyon and sit the next day, it was almost as if they all dissapeared. I think I was in a good spot, deer bumped into me daily which scared the heck out of me when 10 - 20 yards away the snort/wheeze blows up behind you. You all know the sound.

 

Just asking, am I on the right track? Should I do anything differently? This was a Dec hunt and I put in for it again this year, I want another crack at it. I will admit, it was freaken cold, about 15 deg with snow, 5500 in elevation, so I was out about an hour after sun up and in place for the day. We headed back to camp about 20 minutes just shy of dark. All camo, scent block... the works. Tell me this unit is full of a massive tribe of lesbion deer and I will not feel bad with all the lack of buck sightings.

 

Thanks,

Alex

[nastynate]

If you are in an area and you are seeing 50-70 deer, it seems like you are on the right track. I too have had the lesbian deer experience, but just remember, all of those does are products of a buck(s). The bucks are there, just be patient. Spend as much time in the field as you can, it is directly proportional to the amount of deer (bucks included) that you will see.

 

Take advantage of the archery deer seasons, even if you don't think you will be successful. They are great times to practice your glassing and hunting skills, get to know your area, and who knows, maybe you will even harvest a deer.

 

How is your optics situation? A few seasons ago, after glassing up a lot of deer at distance with my binos (good quality 12x) and not being able to tell if some of them had a rack or not, I decided to invest in the best spotting scope I could afford. It helped me determine if the deer I was seeing were does or not. Remember, some of those bucks have pretty small racks. I guess it depends on if you are after a big trophy or a small one.

 

Either way, enjoy the hunt weather you are successful or not. Have a good time with your son, be glad you can share the experience together. Be patient, persistent, and spend a lot of time glassing. Even the best hunters don't harvest deer every season. Good Luck! - Nate

[CouesKilla]

I've killed a lot of deer in 29. I have never been there in December, but one would think that would be even easier. I've run into situations where all we are seeing is doe, and I chalk it up to the fact there was a full moon. Be in place before sun up! You are not doing much wrong when you see 50-70 deer. If you get the tag again PM me, and I'll let you know where we've killed quite a few bucks over the years.

[Gr8 White Jr]

If you are in an area and you are seeing 50-70 deer, it seems like you are on the right track. I too have had the lesbian deer experience, but just remember, all of those does are products of a buck(s). The bucks are there, just be patient. Spend as much time in the field as you can, it is directly proportional to the amount of deer (bucks included) that you will see.

 

Take advantage of the archery deer seasons, even if you don't think you will be successful. They are great times to practice your glassing and hunting skills, get to know your area, and who knows, maybe you will even harvest a deer.

 

How is your optics situation? A few seasons ago, after glassing up a lot of deer at distance with my binos (good quality 12x) and not being able to tell if some of them had a rack or not, I decided to invest in the best spotting scope I could afford. It helped me determine if the deer I was seeing were does or not. Remember, some of those bucks have pretty small racks. I guess it depends on if you are after a big trophy or a small one.

 

Either way, enjoy the hunt weather you are successful or not. Have a good time with your son, be glad you can share the experience together. Be patient, persistent, and spend a lot of time glassing. Even the best hunters don't harvest deer every season. Good Luck! - Nate

 

Very good advice! Some of the best Ive read on this site. Especially the taking advantage of the archery season part. Getting out during the archery season to spend countless hours glassing and making countless unsuccesfull stalks is priceless practice. Every trip you will learn more and more about the area you are hunting and what you are seeing where. Every time you go out it will get easier and easier to find deer including the bucks. With every blown stalk you will learn a little more about what you could have done different or what you will do next time. Once you start getting better at making archery stalks, your rifle stalks will seem that much easier. I think trial and error is one of the best learnig methods along with doing exactly what your doing now, asking questions on this site. This site is a volcano of valuable knowledge so just keep reading all the different posts and keep asking the questions when you have them.

 

-Tracy

[JMP]

I'm certainly no expert, but I wouldn't give up on a buck that was a mile away. it'll only take about a half hour to get within range. we spotted a big deer last year in unit 32 at about a mile out, and walked in to it. When we got there, we weren't able to relocate it, but we did find another buck bedded under a tree that we wouldn't have been able to see from where we were.

[alexjh1]

Thanks for the advise everyone, keep it coming. I feel like I am on the right track. Optics, not a good situation, this is an expensive hobby so I am saving. That makes sense, with all of the deer I glassed up there may have been smaller racks which I just thought were does given my optics. In another area I scouted, I found a really cool skull with 5 x4 that was a dream deer for me, brought it home to add to my collection of finds. I have never harvested a deer and would like to put some meet in my freezer. I am not a trophy hunter....yet, my thought is you need to crawl before you walk.

 

My family was big on fishing here in AZ growing up. I caught the hunting bug in my late twenties. Went out with a guy who showed me the ropes, got sooo lucky and baged a cow elk archery and was hooked ever since. Truth be told, sharing the experience with my boys and letting them see wild animals and beautiful wilderness is my trophy. Harvesting an animal will just be a bonus.

 

I have much to learn and you all are contibuting. I am 1 for 3 elk hunting, my initial cow. I am 1 for two turkey hunting...that was fun. Now Javelina are killing me, I am 0 for 5 and now and I put in because I have to prove that they really exist durring hunting season. Every year I learn more, see more and new areas.

 

CouesKilla, I will definitely hit you up if I am lucky enough to get drawn again. Waiting to see where I end up if at all, put in for 36C and 29 again.

[AZP&Y]

Alex,

 

Sounds like you are right on the verge of your first buck. Keep the focus- it's the key to any big game animal. Javelina can be darn right spooky... There one minute then vanish the next. They are a hoot with the bow.

 

If you are going to hard core bow hunt coues I would start thinking about climbing trees and invest in a nice tree-stand set up. If it doesn't suit you or your hunting style. Sell that and buy a ground blind.

 

Glassing is a great way to hunt em also, but once you locate them, closing the gap is where it get's real interesting...

 

Keep it up, your attitude is right, just by reading your post. Lots of positive energy.

 

AzP&Y

[deserthntr]

ya, you are doing pretty much right, except for the being up an hour after sunrise and going back 20 minutes before dark, those are the prime times, pm me if you need help with the pigs, i am good with those, and really good with the turks, 3 for 3, and i am only 15, dont know how old your son is now

[alexjh1]

Oh bruther, 15, you are just my boys age. He turns 16 this Nov.

 

The tough part is figuring it out. I love watching the hunting channel, however, they all hunt on ranches in front of huge fields of feed. We live in AZ and it is way different out here. These are desert couse deer and there is no handbook for hunting them. If you dont grow up with someone guiding you it it is tough to learn. The funniest part is talking to hunters, they all love the honey holes and will give you the general info...stay high, wear out the seat of your pants before your boots. Disclaimer, this website is the first place I stumbled upon that people actually want to help. The other general info, Ok, got that part, and not looking for anyones honey hole as I am willing to put in my own time and hiking. Everything I read is on back east, heck, those guys use shotguns..I laugh every time, it is so funny, I swear everytime I pick up a book or an magazine I am waiting for one to mention clubbing a deer because it was so close. To make it worse, those guys have to bag a doe or two before they are allowed to harvest a buck. Now that is good stuff.

 

If I am not succesful in getting drawn, I am willing to tag along if anyone will have me, just to see how it is done. You can blind fold me, no funny business though, and I will be willing to tent it in camp I got the gear.

 

Alex

 

 

[alexjh1]

One of the members talked about a tree stand, man that is tough in the southern end of the state so I do have a ground blind. The difficult part is where to put it. Game trails are everywhere, there are water holes. So with all of the days I spent in unit 29 and all of the deer I saw, I only saw two of them come into water...ha ha does.

 

Now that brings me to my next deer education question. Rutting, I have been out in December 2 x's now and bucks were not chasing does like in the hunting shows or how the books say they do. I talked to an old timer who told me whitetails get to rutting in January not December in southern AZ. Is that true?

 

Second question, water, should I set up on water? I have seen many elk come in and water durring the evening hours however deer and javelina dont follow the same schedule.

 

OK, my basic deer questions:

When whitetail rut?

When do they use water? worth it to set up around water?

Rattling and grunting? Does this work in Az?

[CouesWhitetail]

see my response to your same questions in the Coues biology forum.....

 

Amanda

 

[nastynate]

Alex,

 

You have great and relevant questions, however there is really no one single answer on how to strategize your hunt. Let me start out by saying that I am a self taught western hunter. Hunting is in my family, but all the hunters live in Northern Maine and Alaska. I did grow up in the outdoors, around firearms, extensive camping, mountain climbing etc, (a lot of which was with the Boy Scouts), but I really caught the hunting bug on my own around age 14. I went on my first Coues hunt with my scoutmaster around then, we saw deer, didn't harvest any, but I have been absolutely hooked ever since.

 

I certainly do not claim to be an expert, for now at least, but I had a lot of the same questions as you do when I started. I can empathize with your frustration and difficulty finding resources on hunting deer in AZ, and finding deer as well for that matter. Through experience I have been able to answer some of the questions for myself. My increasing success in finding and understanding game tells me that I am doing something right.

 

This website is a fantastic resource for information on hunting Coues and other game here in AZ. All of the hunting shows on TV are fun to watch, but only a few of them are relative to what we do out here in the west. Amanda has provided some great answers to the questions you proposed. You mentioned that there is no handbook for Coues hunting. You should try reading How to Hunt Coues Deer by Duwane Adams and Tony Mandile. I believe it is available for purchase through the cw.com store. Also, Deer of the Southwest by Jim Heffelfinger is another good resource. All of these authors are members of cw.com. In addition, Bill Quimby, another very notable author and hunter, is also a member. These could be great sources of knowledge for you.

 

To add to some of what Amanda as mentioned, the peak of the whitetail rut is in January. It seems to me that the Mule deer start a little earlier. The January rut is another excellent reason to pursue the archery hunts. With over the counter tags and the ability to virtually hunt the entire month, it is an opportunity you shouldn't pass up.

 

As far as tactics regarding hunting over water, rattling, and grunting: The deer have to drink water. The drier the conditions, the fewer the water sources, and the more concentrated they will be around the sources that still exist, that being said I usually sit water during dry times. I have found that they do not follow strict behavior patterns as far as when they will come to water. This method can be very successful, but irrational or not, I have trouble shaking the feeling that I'm missing deer that are just out of view, and/or scent is contributing to its effectiveness. One of my favorite methods is to combine glassing with watching water. There are a few spots that I have found that provide vantage points that cover lots of terrain with a water hole in view. This enables me to glass the hillsides, and keep track of a water hole without the constriction and intrusion of a ground blind. I have never hunted out of a treestand. Most of the places I hunt don't have many suitable trees, but again some hunters find it to be effective out west.

 

Rattling and Grunting: As Amanda mentioned this method can be difficult due to the lower concentrations of deer out west. Due to the biology, they will respond the same way as other deer species in the east and come in to the sounds of rattling and grunting. It is most effective during the rut. I prefer to save this method for when I know/think a buck in near. (you can read about specific rattling and grunting methods under hunt strategies on this site) Don't forget about scent control. I do use scent sprays, and some clothing, but never depend on their effectiveness. Read the wind, always keep in mind where your scent is going.

 

As I mentioned in my first response to this thread, the only real thing is to get out in the field as much as possible. Take advantage of the archery season. Time spent out is directly proportional to the amount of deer that you will see. Get away from the roads. Once you are out there go where the deer are, which you seemed to have done already. Once you are there, GLASS. Glass slowly, methodically. Understand the deer behavior and adapt your glassing accordingly. You can learn deer behavior through reading on this site, the books mentioned, and most importantly experience in the field. Be patient. Yes, hunting is an expensive activity, but don't be tempted to buy bargain glass. It will be a waste of money. Not everyone can afford Swarovski, Ziess Leica,etc, but I have found Stiener,and Nikon make relatively good products and they can be found at good sale prices at Sierra Trading Post, and Sportsmans Guide. Use a tripod. Just remember to get out there and have a great time weather you harvest or not. If you put the work in it will pay off. Practice makes perfect, and nothing worth having comes easy. Stay positive and Good Luck! - Nate.

 

[alexjh1]

Amanda and Nate,

Thank you both for your responses. I do have the How to Hunt Coues Deer book and have read it many times over to find if I am missing anything. It falls short on several topics for the novice. Water it gives a very high level answers, topo map reading and it kind of skirts the rutting period (when do they). I will say this, not the smartest moment in life, I went archery deer a few years back 36c with a friend, I want to say it was in October. This book has a great section on warm weather hunting, man O man, ticks, black flies and Rattlers were only some of the beasties I came across. Not a fun trip, stay clear of warm weather hunting in AZ there is a day and night shift of bugs, spiders and rattlers. So, Nate, your answers really help especially with the self taught hunter part, it gives me hope and insight. I have learned every time I go out just a bit more, however if you dont know its broken you cant fix it which is why I posted on this site. I feel I am on the right track with all of your postings. Well, now I guess time in the field, locating them again, closing the distance and a bit of luck I will harvest my first couse. You really cant lose being out there...unless you are warm weather hunting...thanks again everyone.