where are all the deer hunters?

[bonuspointjohn]

Having spent the last 3 weeks at projects or meetings I find it strange that over 150,000 souls apply for deer tags and fewer than 1000 across the state can be counted on to work on projects or join the conservation groups that support the deer herds of Arizona. I am not and probably will never be a forum regular, but Amanda let me get in to ask this question. I know that between family and work (those of us luck enough to have one) it is hard to do stuff that has no particular payoff. I am asking the question in hopes that I can find out what the other 99.3% of the people do that want deer tags but do not offer support when it comes to projects or conservation groups. What does the Coues Whitetail .com group think?....BPJohn

[Guest 300ultramag.]

Having spent the last 3 weeks at projects or meetings I find it strange that over 150,000 souls apply for deer tags and fewer than 1000 across the state can be counted on to work on projects or join the conservation groups that support the deer herds of Arizona. I am not and probably will never be a forum regular, but Amanda let me get in to ask this question. I know that between family and work (those of us luck enough to have one) it is hard to do stuff that has no particular payoff. I am asking the question in hopes that I can find out what the other 99.3% of the people do that want deer tags but do not offer support when it comes to projects or conservation groups. What does the Coues Whitetail .com group think?....BPJohn

 

 

those 150,000 souls pay $7.50 for a processing fee to the G&F equaling 1125000

not counting the licenses to hunt AZ which is close to $40.00 x 150,000= 60000000

plus 30% of those tags given are $225.00.....X.that magical number and you get alot when you add in the non-resident licenses

 

If some of this would be invested towards the Volunteers ie. mileage I think it would be a huge help. or an increase in Vols.

 

Me personally i like the companionship one is given when attending such functions,but people tend to put

themselves first and historically gas prices fluctuate and I believe 1 would rather spend extra coin on scouting then draining an entire tank of gas to and from on their day off!

 

IMO

 

 

[tjhunt2]

Having spent the last 3 weeks at projects or meetings I find it strange that over 150,000 souls apply for deer tags and fewer than 1000 across the state can be counted on to work on projects or join the conservation groups that support the deer herds of Arizona. I am not and probably will never be a forum regular, but Amanda let me get in to ask this question. I know that between family and work (those of us luck enough to have one) it is hard to do stuff that has no particular payoff. I am asking the question in hopes that I can find out what the other 99.3% of the people do that want deer tags but do not offer support when it comes to projects or conservation groups. What does the Coues Whitetail .com group think?....BPJohn

 

I don't have any facts to back this but I would have to think that number of 99.3% is way off the mark. My hats off to you for volunteering your time but just because you don't see alot of people at meetings or projects doesn't mean sportsmen haven't donated in other ways. There are way to many organizations, associations, clubs, ect. to mention and each one of their members giving donations and memberships would have to better the 1,000 mark you mentioned. I'm not here to argue with you I just don't want to believe it. Maybe your right but I hope not. I recently helped on a water project and found it to be really rewarding to the soul.

 

I feel your frustration and know of many who talk the walk but won't walk the walk. With that said I also know of many who do things behind the scene like digging out old catchments, supplying water to catchments, and donate towards the game & fish donation box on applications. So when you say you don't know what the other 99.3% of the people that want deer tags but do not offer support to projects and conservation groups, just remember there is more behind the scene than you can imagine in my opion.

 

Thanks for bringing this up and maybe this will get more people motivated towards projects.

 

We would like you to be a forum regular and thanks for jumping in there.

 

TJ

[SilentButDeadly]

1) There is no way 'easy' way for the average tag owner to know about volunteer projects. Unless it hits me in the side of the head I am likely not to notice it.

 

2) Most tag owner's feel that they've already 'given back' for what they've spent on the tag and license fees (how much money do mountain bikers, hikers, or birders put into the state coffers for habitat and road maintenance?).

 

3) Hunting is inherently anti-social when it comes to large anonymous groups -- Am I really going to lead a bunch of people to where I go hunting to help fix a tank, so that next fall I can share a hard won area with newbies and everyone else in the grape-vine??

 

If volunteer groups want more support, they should ask G&F to include with every mailed tag (the same as the Big Game Raffle) a description of how hunters can help. Also, volunteer groups should be able to get a hold of the addresses of all successful tag holders (the same way that guiding services do), and send out interest forms (maybe sweeten the deal with free schwagg for volunteers who come out).

 

 

T

[Red Rabbit]

I helped on a fence removal project in unit 9 a few years ago. The WM was present and was a great source of info for future hunts.

 

Why don't more people help on projects?

* Apathy- don't care to return to the habitat and species. Like most groups, less than 10% of the members do the work and most people are not members.

* Lack of commitment- let some other activity be an excuse to supercede the project

* The attitude that my license fee is supposed to pay for it

* Not knowing about it- not involved in a critter group or internet forum to hear about the project. If one is not a member of a group or receiving emails from G&F, one is likely ignorant of the project.

* lack of travel $, distance to the project, other family events.

* Do not feel a tie to the unit (or hunt the unit) the project is in

 

 

 

[CouesWhitetail]

Good post for a discussion John, thanks for starting it.

 

Seems to me Doug summed it up perfectly. In almost all things, 10% of the people do 90% of the work. Why that is the case is beyond me.

 

But for those of you that haven't helped on a water project or a fence project or research project, I sure would like to let you all know that it's a ton of fun and very rewarding. It's a great way to get the family out and involved also. Everyone is busy, but just try picking one project to do this year and see if you don't enjoy it.

 

I try and post projects in the Calendar section of this forum, but you should also sign up with the AGFD volunteer email list. AGFD sends out emails that list many of the projects going on in the state.

http://www.azgfd.gov/inside_azgfd/volunteer.shtml

 

If you don't want to sign up for those emails, just go visit the website of your favorite conservation group and see what projects they have going on.

 

Also, as others have mentioned, there are lots of ways to help that don't involve donating a Saturday's worth of time. Donate to a conservation group, help with a banquet, become a member, send emails to politicians/AGFD, etc.

 

I would love to see more hunters involved in projects.

 

Amanda

[Birddog]

Having spent the last 3 weeks at projects or meetings I find it strange that over 150,000 souls apply for deer tags and fewer than 1000 across the state can be counted on to work on projects or join the conservation groups that support the deer herds of Arizona. I am not and probably will never be a forum regular, but Amanda let me get in to ask this question. I know that between family and work (those of us luck enough to have one) it is hard to do stuff that has no particular payoff. I am asking the question in hopes that I can find out what the other 99.3% of the people do that want deer tags but do not offer support when it comes to projects or conservation groups. What does the Coues Whitetail .com group think?....BPJohn

 

I don't have any facts to back this but I would have to think that number of 99.3% is way off the mark. My hats off to you for volunteering your time but just because you don't see alot of people at meetings or projects doesn't mean sportsmen haven't donated in other ways. There are way to many organizations, associations, clubs, ect. to mention and each one of their members giving donations and memberships would have to better the 1,000 mark you mentioned. I'm not here to argue with you I just don't want to believe it. Maybe your right but I hope not. I recently helped on a water project and found it to be really rewarding to the soul.

 

I feel your frustration and know of many who talk the walk but won't walk the walk. With that said I also know of many who do things behind the scene like digging out old catchments, supplying water to catchments, and donate towards the game & fish donation box on applications. So when you say you don't know what the other 99.3% of the people that want deer tags but do not offer support to projects and conservation groups, just remember there is more behind the scene than you can imagine in my opion.

 

Thanks for bringing this up and maybe this will get more people motivated towards projects.

 

We would like you to be a forum regular and thanks for jumping in there.

 

TJ

 

+1

 

Well said TJ except that part about "talk the walk but don't walk the walk"

 

First off thank you for your effort and I feel your pain. I know there is endless work that needs to be done and it always seems like there is not enough hands. But just because some have not helped on your project or been at your meeting does not mean it simply does not happen. I have been apart of a clean up project in some of my favorite Quail country. Last month I spent close to 40 hours cleaning up trash that illegal’s have left behind. Do you know me? I doubt you know about all of hours spent on this project. I know I have seen several clean up projects here on this site alone. Did you take any of this into consideration when you came up with your figure? I'm not here to pick a fight or anything just saying you cannot possibly know of all the volunteer work that goes on in this state. Thanks for bringing this up. Hopefully it will turn the light on for some people.

[billrquimby]

Thanks for your volunteer effort, but you shouldn't count the 150,000 people who apply for tags as "deer hunters." Because of our permit system, there are only about 40,000 people who will be allowed to hunt deer in any given year. To get one in 40 to show up for work projects that aren't adequately advertised is quite a feat, I'd say.

 

Bill Quimby

[TLH]

I believe John is asking deer hunters specifically because he does know about the numbers and how many people help. He may be asking about deer hunters because there was a project for the AES this past weekend and there were over 90 people there to help. Most deer projects have less than 20 people who show up and most of those folks are the regulars.

 

There are a lot of good things happening behind the scenes that none of know about because we don't care to have that pat on the back that some like. I know of several folks that wear out water trailers each year dumping water into water holes and others who spend a ton of time checking water catchments to make sure the floats work and that there is no dabries in the water. I also know of a few folks who go up and check fences for ranchers so we all can have access on that ranch to hunt--sure, they might want to hunt that ranch too but the folks i know never stipulate to the ranchers that they want sole access.

 

Some people do not want to belong a a group or an org. and a lot them do what they do because they just want to be a part of the wild and they do not like the politics involved with groups.

 

The bottom line is times are tough--i spent 60 bucks just driving up and back from a meeting this weekend and then i spent another ten bucks just to eat--true, i would have to eat at home but it would not have cost ten bucks. People are losing their jobs, bills are piling up and the economy isn't getting any better--it will not get any better anytime soon and unless you are one of the lucky ones who have money set aside you probably will not be able to even go hunting much less spend a lot of money on drive time and other costly items to help with projects.

 

 

 

That all said--we could all do better--maybe plan a weekend with the family and spend one day helping with a project and a day with the family fishing, hiking or anything else and you can accomplish two important tasks in one weekend. Just a suggestion.

[Ernesto C]

For some of us is better and cheaper(sp) to donate money and also is cheaper to volunteer for local wildlife projects than to travel 200 to 400 miles.

 

Ernesto C

[CouesWhitetail]

Those of you wanting to help and not travel can buy raffle tickets for the Great American Deer Raffle, which is ending soon and has some outstanding hunts available to win! Money goes to help deer in AZ through the AZ Deer Association.

 

What could be easier?

 

 

check it out:

 

http://www.azdeer.org/great_american_deer_...deer_raffle.htm

 

[hime]

I don't post on here much but thought I'd give my input since this subject is something I've been interested in. I've never volunteered for a project mainly because I didn't know about them. Because of this site I have learned a small part of what goes on and have tried to make a few of the projects. Unfortunatly, between work, coaching, and family I've never made one yet. Speaking for the people I hunt with, everytime we go out to the wilderness we do something to make it better. Most of the time it is just picking up trash, but there have been several larger undertakings on occasion. Basically what I'm trying to say is a lot of hunters do these same things every day they are out, not just at a single predetermined event.

 

JDH

[bradne]

I very rarely reply to any of these, but this one I feel I should. As someone above mentioned, the project last week by Big Lake had a large turn out. I actually planned to go up and help, but recieved an email telling me that they already had enough volunteers. At first I was a little dissapointed, but I also realize that it takes a lot of logistics to organize and maintain a group of 100 people. I was asked to go to another project in July, but due to work schedule I cannot make it.

 

I do beleive that, as mentioned before, 90% of the work is done by 10% of the population. A lot of it is location. In the project I mentioned above, I had scheduled myself four days off and was willing to drive several hours to attend this project. I had to make my work schedule a couple of weeks in advance so it takes planning and corrdination with my co workers to make it all work. I am sure that most people are in the same situation. It is difficult to make everything work. Especially for those of us that do not have a monday through friday/ 9-5 work week.

 

[bonuspointjohn]

Back again with some questions. Most of us would rather cut off our fingers than surrender our bonus points.Several organizations are placing the ":conservation Bonus Point" on the front burner again. The details have not been worked out, but we are looking for a general attitude about what hunters feel. Would any of you be willing to put in say 32 hours during the year for an additional bonus point? The logic is that you could take a family camping, spend time working on some great projects, get the kids exposed to what really goes on in the forests and earn a bonus point at the same time. I know some will say that we should do it because we want to... and I agree. Because my kids are grown, I probably spend at least 1,000 hours a year at meetings or on projects. I will continue to do so in the future, but it would be a nice morsel for the Department to offer a small token of their appreciation for work done. The department also logs in all the volunteer hours and applies for matching funds based on the man hours that we contribute. There are millions that are earned by sportsmen each year for the department... but there could be more. We need to get the youngsters out in the woods on a more frequent basis. getting drawn once every 5 years does not let them understand the cycles of nature nor do they appreciate the hard work that ranchers do to maintain wildlife habitat & drinkers. I know that only by sitting around a campfire with someone who walks in totally different shoes can we appreciate their life. Sharing common ground by working together can only enhance the relationships that are so necessary for future hunter access. Getting youngsters exposed to ranching life gives them a new perspective. I think a lot more folks would think twice about cutting fences if they spent some time with the folks who maintain them.Yes, the AES work project had a lot of attendees... I was one of them. It is the first and only time that the project has filled up. There can be more projects in the future... but we need volunteers.... any one want to help?.....The argument that the costs for doing these projects has a ton of merit. But the good years (3 years ago) had even less participation. Where we go in the future depends a lot on the people who read these forums and feel like responding.... thanks for reading this piece...BPJ

[Red Rabbit]

I hope the Conservation BP goes through this time. I was for it last time also and was surprised it did not go through.