Are the Southern Units Really That Dangerous?

[AZMThunter]

I haven't hunted down south for several years, since we started hunting a central unit for javelina about 5 years ago. All of my deer hunting has been for mulies in the northern half of the state.

 

I didn't wind up putting in down south this year, but mainly because I am not that familiar yet with what would be good areas. As I was lurking around some of the posts, I found a lot of info / photos of smugglers & illegals in some of the areas, as well as several stories of up close & personal encounters.

 

Is it something you guys consider when putting in? I would normally not have given it any thought, but my youngest guy is going with me more and more, and I am curious what you guys with a lot of time down there think.

[tommat]

I've never had trouble....usually hunt 34a and 36c. Always run into a few illegals and have glassed up a drug runner or two with large back packs and guns. My biggest fear of the illegals is raiding my camp when not home...has never happened. They always run from me when they see me glassing...The drug runners are a different beast however. I have always given them a wide birth and a 911 call with gps coordinates.....I feel safe but I also rarely hunt alone. Just bring a buddy.

[desertdog]

This is a great question, and one that I don't think can be answered easily. My first reaction would be to say yes it is or can be dangerous. Now with that being said I have hunted 36A, 36C, 29, and 30B exclusively for the past 20 years. everything form dove and quail to deer and coyote calling. I have never had one incident with illegals or drug runners, and I have seen both. Now in that time I have seen countless gropes of both illegals and runners but they have always gone the other way once they saw me. Now I am sure I have been very lucky that during that time nothing has gotten out of hand.

 

I guess were I come down on the situation is with that amount of activity in the southern units you cant count out the possibility of something bad happening. The fact is you just never know what their intentions may be. If they are desperate they could do anything. And with you starting to take your child it is something to think about.

 

I have taken my daughter and son dove, quail, and coyote calling with me in those areas every sense they were 4 and I have felt safe. I can say there is so much Border Patrol activity especially in 36C that at times it makes it hard to hunt. It comes down to what you are comfortable with and what you are willing to put up with. There is some great hunting, and some beautiful country down south but I would say it could be a risk.

[June]

SERIOUS YES,

 

I know I tend to joke about hunting down south. But just heard three Game and Fish officers were fired upon. Don't have the whole story, yet. But to answer your question. My experience leads to believe these guy's crossing don't want to draw attention to their business or location. But desperate people will do desperate things. Just be careful out their....Peace

[June]

 

No one has anything to say or new information. Gee, I hope I'm really wrong. How about it ADMN. Heard anything. I just hope it was inaccurate info... Peace

[soazarcher]

Haven't heard about that one.

 

I see illlegals every day. I live, hunt, and work within 20 mile of the border.

 

I have never had or seen an issue.

 

I've had them sleeping on my doorstep and found a couple that were in no position to help themselves.

 

Just be aware of your surroundings and hunt with a buddy, and have fun.

[NRS]

SERIOUS YES,

 

I know I tend to joke about hunting down south. But just heard three Game and Fish officers were fired upon. Don't have the whole story, yet. But to answer your question. My experience leads to believe these guy's crossing don't want to draw attention to their business or location. But desperate people will do desperate things. Just be careful out their....Peace

 

Sounds like it is true that the 3 G&F people were shot at, it was on the Tucson news this morning.

[soazarcher]

Are they OK? Did they say if they returned fire?

[NRS]

No one was hit, everyone got out of there safely. The bad guys had disappeared by the time more law enforcement got there.

[huntingfool]

I'm fairly new to the southern AZ area, but have spent quite a bit of time hiking and glassing 36B in the last 2 years. I have yet to see an immigrant of any kind. I see their trash everywhere, old and new sign so I know they frequent the area. I like to bring a buddy but now that my brother moved away I find myself out there alone more and more. I have to say I feel pretty safe, but it is just one of those extra hazards you have to watch out for I guess. There must not be nearly the amount of traffic in my area since it sounds like most others have seen a number of illegals.

[NRS]

No one was hit, everyone got out of there safely. The bad guys had disappeared by the time more law enforcement got there.

 

Here is what the department had to say about the incident.

 

http://azgfd.net/artman/publish/NewsMedia/...co-border.shtml

[WinMag]

I have been huntting 36B for 15+ years now and have never had any problems down there. Although I have seen lots of Illegals down there while scouting and a few during the hunt. Most of the time all they want is water and directions, which I dont give either. The only thing I give them is a way point on my GPS and a quick phone call to the BP when I get service.

 

The main thing is to hunt smart, either in pairs or in radio contact with your huntting buddies and stay alert and aware of your surroundings. It is as safe or unsafe as you're willing to make it.

[Ron G.]

I wonder if this had anything to do with the shots fired at the G&F...

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...0,5537420.story

 

 

Sinaloa cartel may resort to deadly force in U.S.

Authorities say Joaquin 'El Chapo' Guzman, the reputed leader of the Mexican cartel, has given his associates the OK, if necessary, to open fire across the border.

 

By Josh Meyer

 

May 6, 2009

Reporting from Sells, Ariz. -- The reputed head of Mexico's Sinaloa drug cartel is threatening a more aggressive stance against competitors and law enforcement north of the border, instructing associates to use deadly force, if needed, to protect increasingly contested trafficking operations, authorities said.

 

Such a move by Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, Mexico's most-wanted fugitive, would mark a turn from the cartel's previous position of largely avoiding violent confrontations in the U.S. -- either with law enforcement officers or rival traffickers.

 

Police and federal agents in Arizona said they had recently received at least two law enforcement alerts focused on Guzman's reported orders that his smugglers should "use their weapons to defend their loads at all costs."

 

Guzman is thought to have delivered the message personally in early March, during a three-day gathering of his associates in Sonoita, a Mexican town a few miles south of the Arizona border, according to confidential U.S. intelligence bulletins sent to several state and federal law enforcement officials, who discussed them on the condition of anonymity.

 

The Sonoita meeting is considered one of several signs that Guzman is becoming more brazen even in the face of a Mexican government crackdown on his activities and continued turf rivalries with other traffickers.

 

Information from informants, wiretaps and other sources have prompted a flurry of warnings to authorities in U.S. border states, instructing them to use extreme caution when confronting people suspected of smuggling drugs and illegal immigrants from Mexico or ferrying weapons and cash south from the United States, officials familiar with those warnings said.

 

Some U.S. intelligence officials suggested Guzman was on the defensive because of enforcement efforts on both sides of the border and because he can no longer afford to ditch valuable cargoes when challenged by rivals or authorities.

 

Michele Leonhart, acting administrator of the Drug Enforcement Administration, said Mexican smugglers were also under pressure because their Colombian partners were no longer extending them credit. "There's a need to get the cash back itself quicker and faster," Leonhart said.

 

U.S. authorities say Guzman has become increasingly intent on gaining dominance over smuggling routes in Mexico and the United States. To do so, they say, he has escalated his assault on some rival smugglers while forging alliances with others.

 

"Chapo is at the forefront of the efforts to control the routes into the United States," said Thomas M. Harrigan, the chief of operations for the DEA.

 

He said virtually all of the violence remained in Mexico, but U.S. authorities were alarmed that attacks on police, soldiers, government officials, journalists and other potential opponents had intensified near the border.

 

How much risk that poses to U.S. authorities "depends on how desperate the cartels become to move their cargo in the U.S.," said Dan Wells, commander of the Arizona Department of Public Safety's Intelligence Bureau.

 

So far, the contrast has been stark -- near-daily violence in Mexican border towns with relative tranquillity on the U.S. side, according to data and interviews with law enforcement officials in the region.

 

For example, Ciudad Juarez had 100 times as many homicides in the 14 months ending in February as neighboring El Paso, which is roughly half its size. In 2008, Nogales in Mexico's Sonora state had 40 times as many homicides as Nogales, Ariz., which is roughly one-ninth as populous.

 

Deeper into the United States, narcotics agents say they have seen little evidence of spillover from Mexican drug war violence beyond an increase in ransom kidnappings related to collection of drug debts.

 

But near the Mexico-Arizona border, Robert W. Gilbert, chief patrol agent for the U.S. Customs and Border Protection's Tucson sector, said confrontations between law enforcement and suspected traffickers -- and among traffickers themselves -- had grown more violent.

 

A shootout occurred several weeks ago when one group allegedly tried to hijack another's load of drugs on one of the main roads leading north to Phoenix. Two of the suspected traffickers were wounded.

 

"Times have changed," Gilbert said. "The tactics, the aggressiveness. We're victims of our own success." Now, he said, "they'll fight us."

 

An internal report from the agency, obtained by the watchdog group Judicial Watch, appears to support Gilbert's assessment. It shows reported weapons-related assaults against border officers rose 24% last fiscal year, compared with 2007, and assaults involving vehicles rose 7% in the same period.

 

Among areas with sharp increases in assaults was the Tucson corridor, the report said. Mario Escalante, a spokesman for the Border Patrol's Tucson sector, said there were 113 assaults against agents in the sector between October and March, and an additional 26 last month.

 

"They're losing money and they are frustrated, and they are using other tactics to get their loads across," Escalante said.

 

The tactics include throwing barrages of rocks at agents, ramming their cars into agents' vehicles and sometimes shooting. He said the Guzman warning had put agents on edge.

 

When authorities stopped a vehicle in Douglas, Ariz., several weeks ago, traffickers on the Mexican side of the border "laid down suppressive fire" to stop U.S. officials from advancing, enabling the vehicle to make it back across the border with a load of marijuana intact, one Immigration and Customs Enforcement official said in an interview.

 

Arizona Atty. Gen. Terry Goddard said there appeared to be a shift in the rules of engagement on the part of traffickers affiliated with Sinaloa and other cartels.

 

"They've got to get the dope through, or they won't get paid. . . . These guys are under orders. . . . They have rules of engagement and they follow this direction."

 

One member of the Shadow Wolves, American Indian trackers who patrol the Tohono O'odham reservation for the Department of Homeland Security on the Arizona border, said that in the past, weapons were largely used by traffickers to protect themselves from bandits.

 

"But lately, [the bulletins have warned] that they've been carrying them to engage law enforcement," the tracker said.

 

josh.meyer@latimes.com

 

Meyer was on assignment in Arizona.

 

Times staff writer Sam Quinones in El Paso and Los Angeles contributed to this report.

[AZLance]

Game and Fish officer, 2 other agency employees fired upon near Mexico border

Posted in: News Media

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PHOENIX – Three government agency employees, including an officer with the Arizona Game and Fish Department, another Game and Fish employee, and an employee with Pima County Natural Resources, Parks and Recreation, were fired upon yesterday by a group of men they encountered while scouting the area for a land access project in southern Arizona.

 

None of the agency employees were injured.

 

The three were riding all-terrain vehicles (ATVs) on a road through a small canyon area about four miles east of Arivaca Lake when they encountered a group described as at least four Hispanic males dressed in camouflage.

 

According to Leonard Ordway, supervisor for Game and Fish’s Tucson region, two of the individuals in camouflage immediately fled a short distance up a hill and dropped down in the grass upon the encounter, while the agency employees backed out of the immediate vicinity and regrouped.

 

After a few minutes, the Game and Fish officer crept up a small rise a short distance from the road to look over the scene with binoculars. He observed two other males in camouflage in the area, but in a different direction from the first two. He then started back down the hill to return to the ATVs.

 

“As he started back down to the quads, a gunshot coming from the direction where the first two individuals had fled impacted the ground about 10 feet behind him,” said Ordway.

 

The three agency employees immediately departed the area and notified Game and Fish Radio Dispatch, which in turn notified the Border Patrol, Pima County Sheriff’s Office, and the Arizona Department of Public Safety.

 

About 30-40 law enforcement personnel, aided by three helicopters, were on site within 45 minutes to search the area and investigate the scene. They were not able to find the suspects but did recover several fresh 9mm casings from the area where the initial shot came from, indicating subsequent shots may have been fired as the agency employees were leaving the area.

 

“We’re thankful no one was hurt,” said Game and Fish Director Larry Voyles. “Our law enforcement officers and other field personnel often work in remote areas, and yesterday’s incident serves as a reminder of the potential dangers that they—and personnel from other agencies—face in areas near the border."

 

Voyles added that Game and Fish is reviewing its operating procedures for employees working in borderland areas.

 

[king4wd]

They won't fight fire as agressively down there like they used to. All because of the illegal activity.

 

 

 

 

SOUTHWEST GEOGRAPHIC AREA

Safety Alert

4/10/2009

 

Subject: US- Mexico Border Fire Operations Safety

 

 

Area of Concern: Firefighter and Public Safety

 

Distribution: SW Geographic Area

 

The US-Mexico Border has become increasingly dangerous:

Health and safety concerns of employees and the public in areas adjacent to the US- Mexico border stem from two types of illegal activities on or near the border between Brownsville, TX, and San Diego, CA: drug smuggling and illegal immigration. Each of these illegal activities poses specific safety and health threat to personnel working on or near the border. The border violence has escalated to the highest levels over the last year.

 

Drug Smuggling:

Drug smuggling includes a variety of activities related to the transport and distribution of drugs, across the Mexican border into the United States. The U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency has deemed this area a high-intensity drug trafficking area (HIDTA). Drug smugglers are moving large quantities of drugs across Federal lands and they also are using recreation sites to stage the distribution of drugs to other parts of the United States. Drug smugglers are always considered potentially violent because they don’t want to be caught or lose their load of drugs.

 

Illegal Immigration:

Activities associated with illegal immigration fall into two categories: the operations of those trafficking in illegal immigrants, or “coyotes,” and the activities of the illegal immigrants themselves as they are being transported, or are transporting themselves, across the Mexican border into the United States. Most illegal immigrants simply want to be left alone in their quest to come to the United States, the coyotes who assist in the trafficking of illegal immigrants are a different story. Coyotes tend to blend into the group of illegal immigrants to avoid detection. These coyotes are engaged in illegal activities, could be armed, and don’t want to be caught. An encounter with these individuals poses a threat to personal safety. Even though there have been no reported cases of physical harm to a field employees, there have been cases of serious injury

to law enforcement officers.

 

Problems Fighting Wildland Fires

All personnel responding to fires along the US- Mexico border need to be aware of issues related to illegal activities on or near the border and have a understanding of the unique problems they will face while fighting fire near the border. It is imperative that agency offices along the border provide IMT’s and incoming resources a very through briefing on the unique border safety issues.

There is a real possibility firefighters will encounter illegal immigrants or drug smugglers. When firefighters encounter immigrants or smugglers, the firefighters may be distracted, losing the situational awareness they need to keep themselves and their crews safe. It is important that IMT’s responding to the border region set up coordinated efforts with local law enforcement (e.g., Border Patrol) in anticipation of illegal activities.

 

These are potential situations firefighters could encounter:

1. Illegal immigrant and smugglers warming fires have started wildland fires.

2. Illegal activity along the border has involved “copy cat vehicles” painted to look like agency vehicles.

3. Radios and phones don’t work in many locations on the border.

4. When cell phones do work, a call placed to law enforcement might connect to an operator in Mexico.

5. Conflicts in air space with helicopters assigned to the fire and helicopters used for law enforcement.

6. Undocumented aliens are hiding or camping within or adjacent to the incident operations.

6. Potential health risks associated with large amounts of trash or caches of drugs burning.

7. Arson fires being started to divert attention from illegal activities happening nearby.

8. Clusters of illegal immigrant vehicles.

9. Packs and equipment being stolen.

Border Safety Information:

The US Forest Service and other agencies have developed protocols and training materials to help increase the safety awareness

for firefighters working along the border. Links to additional information are on the SWCC website with this Safety Alert under

Safety Management.

 Border Fire Initial Attack Protocol, and International Border Watchouts pocket card, Coronado National

Forest.

 Borderland Safegaurds, pamphlet AZ BLM.

 MTDC study; Personal Safety Of Federal Land-Management Field Employees Working Along The Mexican

Border. Contact Lisa Outka-Perkins at MTDC: Phone: 406–329–3849, Fax: 406–329–3719, E-mail: loutkaperkins@

fs.fed.us

 MTDC Safety Training DVD; Personal Safety in Remote Work Locations. Segment 1, Working on the

Border, emphasizes awareness, segment 2, Managing Unexpected Encounters on the Border. Contact

Lisa Outka-Perkins at MTDC: Phone: 406–329–3849, Fax: 406–329–3719, E-mail: loutka-perkins@fs.fed.us

 FWS Buenos Aires RX Information in Spanish