Crossbow permit repeal

[Flatlander]

What is the reason for banning anything in hunting? Because the more we can exclude others from participation, the more we can tailor hunting around our own interests, preserving our own opportunities at the expense of others.

Yes, a crossbow is easier to use than a compound bow. Yes, a compound bow is easier to use than a traditional bow. That’s why compound guys want compounds excluded. Same reason trad guys want their own season. 

The simple fact is that as the population of AZ grows, we will have to find ways to further limit the % of harvest. That can be done in a lot of different ways. Nearly all people will look at others before being willing to change themselves.  Crossbow's and compound bows are an easy thing to look at and point to for exclusion. But there are other ways to limit efficacy.

What would happen to success rates if we didn’t allow sittIng water? On drought years, archery success rates are way higher than when it’s abundant.

I don’t have strong feelings about any of the weapon types. But I do think that limiting more and more weapon types or groups of hunters is just death my 1,000 cuts. We can keep trimming back what is allowed, but the growing population will just keep pushing the demand. So we need to work together to develop solutions that simultaneously increase wildlife populations and control efficacy.

[elkaholic]

Who  here really thinks hunting with a crossbow gives a hunter an unfair advantage over a compound bow.?

They are way more cumbersome to load an arrow,   especially in a hunting scenario. Get out cocking rope. Makes a nice loud click. Put rope away. Get a bolt out etc. All while trying to see the animals location. . Hope that bucks not laughing to hard. 

Now I'm walking around with a cocked, loaded crossbow for rest of day. Not to mention hazards of getting in ,out  of a the truck.

Take one out while walking thru the woods for a few miles, they get heavy and  awkward . Let alone  problems dealing with the  rugged terrains. 

Kinda heard the ridiculous theory that crossbow hunters are killing more deer, than other hunters.

All archery hunters just love the new quota system. Its ok to limit number of deer harvested during the otc archery season. They even added extra days to hunt .

They still give out thousands of rifle permits. 

Why not give a quota system for crossbows.

Unfortunately I can no longer use my compound bow. Due to arthritis in my left thumb., hand. Its very painful just to hold a bow , let alone draw. To be honest   I'm having problems just gripping a crossbow  or  a rifle to get a steady shot. Practicing with shooting sticks helps. 

Did you see the list of tags for the hunter pool. Giving out thousands of tags for numerous species.  Why not make some of those tags, available for a season for crossbows. 

[wildwoody]

No extra time in the season.

[BOHNTR]

1 hour ago, Flatlander said:

What is the reason for banning anything in hunting? Because the more we can exclude others from participation, the more we can tailor hunting around our own interests, preserving our own opportunities at the expense of others.

 

I don’t believe they are banning anything but rather moving them to the more appropriate season/hunts?  The department simply defined what a bow and arrow is, and crossbows didn’t fit that definition.  Having said that, they realize they’re a viable weapons system and have a place.  Again, those that qualify for CHAMP would still be able to lawfully use a crossbow during an archery hunt.  
 

 

[Flatlander]

1 hour ago, elkaholic said:

Who  here really thinks hunting with a crossbow gives a hunter an unfair advantage over a compound bow.?

From a blind or tree stand, way more lethal than a compound.

Spot and stalk, chasing bugles, etc. way less effective.

On drought years when everyone is sitting water, yes I am sure A LOT more deer are getting killed with crossbows than years when water is everywhere.

[BOHNTR]

1 hour ago, elkaholic said:

1. Who  here really thinks hunting with a crossbow gives a hunter an unfair advantage over a compound bow.?

2. Kinda heard the ridiculous theory that crossbow hunters are killing more deer, than other hunters.

3. It’s ok to limit number of deer harvested during the otc archery season. They even added extra days to hunt. They still give out thousands of rifle permits. 

4. Did you see the list of tags for the hunter pool. Giving out thousands of tags for numerous species.  Why not make some of those tags, available for a season for crossbows. 

1.  I do.  The fact that they do not have to be drawn while the animal is there, can be shot off shooting sticks (a demo was provided of this), and is a shouldered weapon makes them much different than a hand drawn bow. 
 

2.  I was part of the committee (focus group is what they call it) for this issue.  The data (2 years of mandatory reporting) that was  given to us was very revealing.  Some units that closed early had over 40% crossbow kills!  One startling fact given to us was that no unit would have closed early had it not been for crossbow take.  
 

3.  I agree with you wholeheartedly.  I find it interesting that some units only allow, say 10 archery deer to be taken but issue hundreds of general (mostly rifle) permits WITHOUT requiring mandatory reporting.  Hmmm

4.  That was a recommendation to the department from our group.   We suggested a few November elk hunts and some metro hunts for crossbows.  Not sure why that wasn’t originally recommended to the commission.  However, perhaps that’s on the horizon.  It is difficult to place a ‘new’ hunt, as many of them are stacked up already.  
 

I think this is a good start for the department to address the obvious abuse by many utilizing the temporary crossbow permit system.  Something needed to be done and they realized you’re not going to make everyone happy.  Now if they would just make mandatory reporting for ANY/ALL big game hunts and species.  JMO

[BOWUNTR]

1 hour ago, elkaholic said:

Who  here really thinks hunting with a crossbow gives a hunter an unfair advantage over a compound bow.?

Me. If you don't obviously know, then you are ignoring the facts.

 

I'll tell you my selfish reason for not wanting crossbows in the archery season... the quotas. F&G said that if you exclude crossbow kills in the August/September season... every single unit would have been open for the December hunt. Before the quotas I didn't care one bit about crossbows in the archery seasons. This is F&G's screw up for allowing them in the first place.

 

I personally know of three able guys who abused the crossbow process... and shot forkys in August. One of them recently shot a javalina with a recurve. All 3 are just lazy and want easy. Ed F

[oz31p]

20 minutes ago, BOWUNTR said:

Me. If you don't obviously know, then you are ignoring the facts.

 

I'll tell you my selfish reason for not wanting crossbows in the archery season... the quotas. F&G said that if you exclude crossbow kills in the August/September season... every single unit would have been open for the December hunt. Before the quotas I didn't care one bit about crossbows in the archery seasons. This is F&G's screw up for allowing them in the first place.

 

I personally know of three able guys who abused the crossbow process... and shot forkys in August. One of them recently shot a javalina with a recurve. All 3 are just lazy and want easy. Ed F

For some reason the website won’t let me like this twice. 
 

I know of 20somthings at my work that had “sore shoulders” that now have (had) cross bow permits on 

[creed]

20 minutes ago, BOWUNTR said:

Me. If you don't obviously know, then you are ignoring the facts.

 

I'll tell you my selfish reason for not wanting crossbows in the archery season... the quotas. F&G said that if you exclude crossbow kills in the August/September season... every single unit would have been open for the December hunt. Before the quotas I didn't care one bit about crossbows in the archery seasons. This is F&G's screw up for allowing them in the first place.

 

I personally know of three able guys who abused the crossbow process... and shot forkys in August. One of them recently shot a javalina with a recurve. All 3 are just lazy and want easy. Ed F

 

You can find people in nearly any area of life that abuse the system. How many guys do you know that road hunt? How about driving down the road and see a big buck or bull? Do you ignore it and keep driving just because you spotted it from the road? I'm not. I'm going to try and kill it. Is that considered road hunting? Does it violate the rules of fair chase? How about radios? There's a whole other topic. I think they should be banned.

How did G&F come up with their 40%?

For you guys with the answers, how far are guys killing game with an xbow? It's said they  have an advantage. I killed an antelope at 93 yards with a Hoyt Vectrix. No, I shouldn't have taken that kind of shot but did. How much greater advantage do they really have?

I will give you that over water xbow's likely have an advantage. Less movement for sure. Otherwise I have hunted with disabled vets that used xbows. If they had an advantage spot and stalk I completely missed it.

I am going to let the Dept know my thoughts but this feels like a done deal. Comments are likely a formality.

I'm sorry but I get the feeling of elitism here.

 

[wildwoody]

HAM hunts for all.. Hunting is a privilege not a right..

[cjl2010]

26 year old at work fell off an excavator and blew his elbow up on a fire and had multiple surgeries on it.  Got infected and had a couple skin grafts. He is 10000% able besides the fact he can’t shoot a bow because his arm won’t ever be straight and won’t ever hold the weight of drawing a bow. I don’t know much about the champ deal. Would he qualify for that?

[Couzer]

1 hour ago, wildwoody said:

HAM hunts for all.. Hunting is a privilege not a right..

CHAM coming soon, 😆 

[elkaholic]

3 hours ago, wildwoody said:

No extra time in the season.

These management hunts are for the whole year long season7 by

[trphyhntr]

6 minutes ago, elkaholic said:

These management hunts are for the whole year long season7 by

you get called to hunt a certain time, you dont get to hunt year round. 

[cactusjack]

On 1/17/2025 at 6:33 PM, BOWUNTR said:

Me. If you don't obviously know, then you are ignoring the facts.

 

I'll tell you my selfish reason for not wanting crossbows in the archery season... the quotas. F&G said that if you exclude crossbow kills in the August/September season... every single unit would have been open for the December hunt. Before the quotas I didn't care one bit about crossbows in the archery seasons. This is F&G's screw up for allowing them in the first place.

 

I personally know of three able guys who abused the crossbow process... and shot forkys in August. One of them recently shot a javalina with a recurve. All 3 are just lazy and want easy. Ed F

Did you call Game Thief?