2025 Elk Regs up

[idgaf]

Talking to a lot of crossbow, you would be surprised how many had knee injuries or back spasms.  This loophole is getting abused and i am glad it's closing

My stepdad has a champ permit, primarily so I can retrieve his game if he makes a bad shot.  He hasn't hunted any of the otc stuff with it. 

[NOTAGS]

My orthopedist refused to sign  the crossbow permit originally due to the 85% disability wording….,,it took surgery #3 to get it signed.  Yeah,they get abused, a buddy got one and there’s nothing wrong with his ability to shoot a compound, his doc just scribbled away when he asked her.  I feel bad for the people that really need one and want to hunt with one getting bumped to general hunts tho.   But it’s all a moot point from here on out

[CatfishKev]

3 hours ago, trphyhntr said:

Last I checked those weren’t legal in Az for archery hunts 

Too bad, seems like it could be a good compromise as it's only accurate as the bow and shooter is.  

[Coues7777]

If you have champ permit ... can you hunt with a Crossbow during the archery otc  season ?

[Roofer Billy]

14 minutes ago, Coues7777 said:

If you have champ permit ... can you hunt with a Crossbow during the archery otc  season ?

Yes

[NOTAGS]

And the Champ permits will be the next to be axed due to abuse.  

[Crazymonkey]

13 minutes ago, NOTAGS said:

And the Champ permits will be the next to be axed due to abuse.  

I hope your wrong! There's  always  going  to be those who  take advantage.  Then there's  those who  are truly  deserving and these champ permits are probably  there only way they get to hunt. I just helped  on a champ  hunt for elk and without  having  the champ  permit  I don't  think  alot of the people  who are deserving  would  get the opportunity.  We did run into other hunters with  champ permits and they were all legitimate and would not have the opportunity  without.  For some it's a hunt of a lifetime! Champ permits  are not a genuine issue  of success.  It's extremely  difficult  to get disabled  hunters into a position  to harvest there animals.  We could  easily  find elk ! But to find them in a spot where a disabled  hunter could get to was a very  different  situation  . 

[NOTAGS]

30 minutes ago, Crazymonkey said:

I hope your wrong! There's  always  going  to be those who  take advantage.  Then there's  those who  are truly  deserving and these champ permits are probably  there only way they get to hunt. I just helped  on a champ  hunt for elk and without  having  the champ  permit  I don't  think  alot of the people  who are deserving  would  get the opportunity.  We did run into other hunters with  champ permits and they were all legitimate and would not have the opportunity  without.  For some it's a hunt of a lifetime! Champ permits  are not a genuine issue  of success.  It's extremely  difficult  to get disabled  hunters into a position  to harvest there animals.  We could  easily  find elk ! But to find them in a spot where a disabled  hunter could get to was a very  different  situation  . 

No disagreement.  Just saying that things get abused, and kneejerk reactions ensue . Like the xbow issue.   Enough complaints , our “ nonpartisan” commission will review it , and their personal opinions preside.

 

[cactusjack]

LMAO! This will change nothing. The same doctor will sign off on the CHAMP permit application and the number of CHAMP Permit holders will go up dramatically and crossbow hunters will grow in numbers.

Some say that it is being abused and taken advantage of. Where is your proof? Before you answer make sure you are ready for what is about to be asked.  How many people were cited for illegally acquiring a crossbow permit? It would be fraud, correct?  

What is the issue with crossbow hunters?

Why is it being proposed that R12-4-216 be repealed?

● Crossbow technology was much simpler in 1996 when the crossbow permit was initiated, but improvements in crossbow technology have advanced to a point that crossbow is no longer comparable to standard archery equipment and cannot be considered reasonable accommodation in archery-only hunts.

My Reply: What a load of crap, everything we have been granted to use as legal method of take with any hunt season for any wildlife has improved technology. How much technology has gone from a recurve to a compound, or a flintlock to a 500+ yard inline muzzleloader, how about a centerfire rifle which went from a lever action 30-30 to now taking shots at over 1000 yards. What is then standard archery equipment? A recurve is standard archery equipment therefore compound bows should also not be allowed to be used with any archery designated hunt. Make range finders illegal, make inline muzzleloaders illegal, make anything larger than a 3-10x42 rifle scope illegal, make any illuminated sight used for any legal method of take illegal, make OnX maps illegal. Can’t have technology advancement.

.

● Trends in OTC archery-only deer, and archery-only elk, pronghorn, and deer draw hunts show a rapid increase in the number of crossbow permit holders applying for archery-only hunts (e.g., archery elk draw applicants increased two orders of magnitude since 2015, from 32 to > 3200 applicants in 2023).

My Reply:

1. Arizona has increased by well over 32 percent of new applicants since 2020. That would put the number of applicants well over 250,000 hunting license holders in Arizona in 2024. 3200 crossbow permit holder is 1.3% (3250) of the total hunting license holders.

2. The amount of physically challenged / disabled people has increase by leaps and bounds in the USA. We have more disabled people today than ever at any time of the WORLD history. Technology and medicine have improved dramatically to achieve these numbers saving lives and allowing more disabled people become more mobile plus the increase of opportunity in sports, business opportunities and hunting opportunities.

3. The population in Arizona in 2015 was 6,832,810,

The population in Arizona in 2024 7,582,384

The difference is 749,574 people have moved into Arizona since 2015 the increase of 9.9% of population and new potential Arizona Hunting applicants. To think that the number of potential new applicants and new hunters and new crossbow holder wouldn’t go up is concerning. I have to ask about the intelligence of those running the Arizona Game and Fish Department. If I were to take the amount of people have moved into Arizona since 2015 to 2024 and take the number of crossbow permit holder that would be less than 0.5%. Arizona does not have a crossbow hunting problem.

● Crossbow harvest in OTC archery-only deer hunts ranges from 5% to > 30% of total take in multiple OTC hunt units, but only 10% of archery hunters report they used a crossbow to hunt.

My Reply: Ah here is the truth. Its about numbers and keeping it even and equal. Make the deer archery season a draw. You can have three archery deer season and allow those who hunt with a standard archery equipment like a recurve the opportunity to do so and those who chose to use a HIGH ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY like the compound bow can also have that opportunity plus still giving the disabled crossbow hunter the same opportunity.

Make OTC the deer archery season a DRAW!

● OTC units closing quickly (many within the first week); harvest surveys indicate persons who use a crossbow harvest an animal 3 days shorter than standard archery equipment.

My Reply: Think outside the box. A person with a crossbow permit is disabled therefore it is unlikely for a physically challenged hunter to pass up a legal deer because its antlers are to small or not big enough to brag about. On the other hand, the person using standard archery equipment like a recurve or a long bow will also do their best to fill their tag. Those who choose to use a HIGH ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY like the compound bow tend to pass up more legal deer. Which leads to tag soup for that unit. Currently AZGFD has 74 designated hunts for OTC and as of January 12, 2025 33 hunts are still open which is about 44% of the hunts still open. OTC units closing quickly is not valid.

[Roofer Billy]

44 minutes ago, cactusjack said:

LMAO! This will change nothing. The same doctor will sign off on the CHAMP permit application and the number of CHAMP Permit holders will go up dramatically and crossbow hunters will grow in numbers.

Some say that it is being abused and taken advantage of. Where is your proof? Before you answer make sure you are ready for what is about to be asked.  How many people were cited for illegally acquiring a crossbow permit? It would be fraud, correct?  

What is the issue with crossbow hunters?

Why is it being proposed that R12-4-216 be repealed?

● Crossbow technology was much simpler in 1996 when the crossbow permit was initiated, but improvements in crossbow technology have advanced to a point that crossbow is no longer comparable to standard archery equipment and cannot be considered reasonable accommodation in archery-only hunts.

My Reply: What a load of crap, everything we have been granted to use as legal method of take with any hunt season for any wildlife has improved technology. How much technology has gone from a recurve to a compound, or a flintlock to a 500+ yard inline muzzleloader, how about a centerfire rifle which went from a lever action 30-30 to now taking shots at over 1000 yards. What is then standard archery equipment? A recurve is standard archery equipment therefore compound bows should also not be allowed to be used with any archery designated hunt. Make range finders illegal, make inline muzzleloaders illegal, make anything larger than a 3-10x42 rifle scope illegal, make any illuminated sight used for any legal method of take illegal, make OnX maps illegal. Can’t have technology advancement.

.

● Trends in OTC archery-only deer, and archery-only elk, pronghorn, and deer draw hunts show a rapid increase in the number of crossbow permit holders applying for archery-only hunts (e.g., archery elk draw applicants increased two orders of magnitude since 2015, from 32 to > 3200 applicants in 2023).

My Reply:

1. Arizona has increased by well over 32 percent of new applicants since 2020. That would put the number of applicants well over 250,000 hunting license holders in Arizona in 2024. 3200 crossbow permit holder is 1.3% (3250) of the total hunting license holders.

2. The amount of physically challenged / disabled people has increase by leaps and bounds in the USA. We have more disabled people today than ever at any time of the WORLD history. Technology and medicine have improved dramatically to achieve these numbers saving lives and allowing more disabled people become more mobile plus the increase of opportunity in sports, business opportunities and hunting opportunities.

3. The population in Arizona in 2015 was 6,832,810,

The population in Arizona in 2024 7,582,384

The difference is 749,574 people have moved into Arizona since 2015 the increase of 9.9% of population and new potential Arizona Hunting applicants. To think that the number of potential new applicants and new hunters and new crossbow holder wouldn’t go up is concerning. I have to ask about the intelligence of those running the Arizona Game and Fish Department. If I were to take the amount of people have moved into Arizona since 2015 to 2024 and take the number of crossbow permit holder that would be less than 0.5%. Arizona does not have a crossbow hunting problem.

● Crossbow harvest in OTC archery-only deer hunts ranges from 5% to > 30% of total take in multiple OTC hunt units, but only 10% of archery hunters report they used a crossbow to hunt.

My Reply: Ah here is the truth. Its about numbers and keeping it even and equal. Make the deer archery season a draw. You can have three archery deer season and allow those who hunt with a standard archery equipment like a recurve the opportunity to do so and those who chose to use a HIGH ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY like the compound bow can also have that opportunity plus still giving the disabled crossbow hunter the same opportunity.

Make OTC the deer archery season a DRAW!

● OTC units closing quickly (many within the first week); harvest surveys indicate persons who use a crossbow harvest an animal 3 days shorter than standard archery equipment.

My Reply: Think outside the box. A person with a crossbow permit is disabled therefore it is unlikely for a physically challenged hunter to pass up a legal deer because its antlers are to small or not big enough to brag about. On the other hand, the person using standard archery equipment like a recurve or a long bow will also do their best to fill their tag. Those who choose to use a HIGH ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY like the compound bow tend to pass up more legal deer. Which leads to tag soup for that unit. Currently AZGFD has 74 designated hunts for OTC and as of January 12, 2025 33 hunts are still open which is about 44% of the hunts still open. OTC units closing quickly is not valid.

What he said 👍

[Flatlander]

You bring up some valid points. Posting them here won’t do much to move the needle. You will need to go to send your comments to the commission and probably show up at the commission meeting to make your voice heard.

[cactusjack]

Flatlander, I have and will continue to do so. I hope others do too.

[wildwoody]

Airbows. I have one for fun. Shots 430ft per second. Accurate to 120yrds, has a scoop with dots. You have to get a high pressure pumps, "looks like a bike pump but 3000 pounds of pressure. Each charge will give you 8 shots. No tank to carry. 

Champ tags are a draw and much harder to abuse.

[bwana]

it's a simple thing! If you can't draw a bow, you can't qualify for an archery hunt! You must apply for rifle hunts! Life is tough! Please stop enabling, crossguns are not bows! 

[wildwoody]

Here here