Petition To Prohibit Hound Hunting In Arizona

[Swivelhead]

AZ's lion population is estimated to be around 2,000 animals.  It's estimated a lion will make a major kill once a week.  Not all are deer but if each lion takes 30 deer per year that's a lot of deer.  We don't need 3,000 lions. 

Center for Biological Diversity wants humans out of the picture, they'll do it one piece at a time.  Always thought CBD would be all over the feral horse and burro issue however it is unpopular with the general population, CBD won't touch it.  They have zero credibility with me and are merely eco-litigants who suck off the government (us) via the Justice Act.

[CatfishKev]

Not to mention how many meals coyotes steal from the lions making them have to kill again.  Since Coyote contests have been banned it's already been detrimental.  I can't imagine how bad it could get it dogs were taken off the table.  

[AZBIG10]

I read on the back of a cereal box once

lions kill big game every week. Whether they consume the animal or bury it. The article stated that the lion will intentionally stash a kill so the scavengers and coyotes in the area will be a few days behind the lion on a kill so when they kill again and actually eat it they aren’t pestered by the other rascals in the area they are on the previous  older kill.

 

my first thought was they sacrifice a mule deer to eat Coues bucks in solitude. 

[wildwoody]

Smartest thing I've heard yet.. Well put

[wildwoody]

9 hours ago, FourthHorseman said:

Hope you don't like hunting deer if you want lion hunting with dogs banned!

Smartest thing I've heard yet. And very true.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

All nonsense aside, anybody have a link where they can join the meeting via zoom or at least send in public comment on the subject???

[RNGRDOG]

I would not like to see all hound hunting banned, but rather restricted by G&F on bears. Kill all the lions with dogs you want, shouldn't even need to bother with tags.

Fire away girls....

 

[knothead]

Story on ch-12 news last night:

AZ conservation groups petition to ban dog hunting for some animals | 12news.com

1st I find it Ironic that newscaster call CBD a conservationist group.  No, they are an anti-hunting group.

2nd It's odd that CBD main argument why we need to ban hunting with dogs is because of the GPS systems on dogs is unfair and has adverse effects on wildlife.   If that's their argument, then why not just petition G&F to get the use of this technology banned? At least debate that issue.  I think we all know that is not the real reason. 

All hunters need to ban together and stop this.  Reach out to all your hunting and non-hunting friends and family.

[PRDATR]

Not only should it not be further restricted but trapping on public land should be brought back and predator competitions. I hunt because I love to pull the trigger and see stuff die, not going to lie. 

Sure I  spend days at a time hiking miles and seeing something different every footstep. Camping alone, setting up the tent and camp, marinating meat days ahead to be cooked over a fire followed by too many beers. I've killed plenty of stuff and at 72 hope to keep doing it for another decade at least.

Never gets old. Each sunrise and sunset is a blessing to be enjoyed. Up and out an hour before dawn and a few times back to camp hours after dark. For some reason I keep going long after my hunting buds have all moved away. 

We need more opportunity not less but there is a plethora of it out there if you are motivated. You can literally hunt something every day of the year in Arizona if you have the gumption to do so. If you don't care for some methods then don't participate, but as a sportsman it's every hunters obligation to support it. Don't be silent.

 

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

—Martin Niemöller

[LungBuster]

Here is the information to virtual join the meeting Friday morning 12/6/24.

https://azgfd-portal-wordpress-pantheon.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/27095451/Rev1-December-6-2024-Commission-Meeting-Agenda.pdf

 

November 25, 2024 A public meeting of the Arizona Game and Fish Commission will be held on December 6, 2024 at the Arizona Game and Fish Department, 5000 W Carefree Highway, Phoenix, AZ 85086. The public may attend the meeting in person or view the meeting at www.azgfd.gov/commissioncam or may listen to the meeting by calling 404-397-1516, Access code: 280 046 234##. Members of the public may view the meeting from any Department Regional Office. Members of the public attending in person wanting to speak on a specific agenda item may submit Speaker Cards (Blue Cards) if they wish to speak to the Commission. Members of the public may only address the Commission by attending in person or from any regional office. Copies of any presentations, documents, etc. discussed during the meeting will be available by contacting sprice@azgfd.gov. Unless expressly provided otherwise with any matter, the Commission may discuss and may vote to take action on the following matters: Friday, December 6, 2024 Meeting location opens at 7:45 a.m. Meeting begins at 8:00 a.m. Lunch Break at 12:00 p.m. Pledge of Allegiance Welcome/Introductions Awards and Recognition 1) Call to the Public. Those persons wishing to speak on a matter not on the agenda should complete a speaker’s card and present it to the host. No discussion or action will be taken by the Commission. 

 

This currently isn't on the agenda they way I understand it. The CBD has petionited the AZGF on this topic so it will be discussed as the first item and I believe you can only make a comment if you are in person and fill out the blue card to speak. 

[Hoss50]

Who went? 

If hunters don't step up for each other, the antis will come for the part of the tradition you want 1 day. They start with niche stuff most people don't like. Running dogs, Falconers, lion and bobcats. Then they go for bears and coyotes. No predator control leads to less deer and elk from you to hunt. Then they just go for more and more. 

[Rharris]

I want to publicly commend Hoss50 for walking up to the podium and speaking to the commission. Hoss50 and I arranged to meet there so I could purchase a pistol from him. My wife, a rancher friend and myself drove from SE Arizona to speak to the commission regarding the petition. Hoss50 is not a houndsman, birddog hunter, or any other type of canine hunter. He is a hunter that understands that even if its not his specific outdoor passion or what i refer to as my way of life, we all need to step up and come together on these issues. We are all being attacked!! Hoss50 stepped up to that podium, unprepared as far as i know and did a great job with his 2 minutes of time. Hoss50, Thank you sir!! I was a nervous wreck, I am not a good public speaker, and did not make the best use of my 2 minutes. I was not able to get all of my speech into the time frame. Here is a copy/paste below.

1. Commissioners, thank you for the work you do to up hold the North American Model for Wildlife Conservation.
2. In response to the petition to ban hunting with dogs in Arizona. This petition is an anti hunting agenda, make no mistake with what their end goal is. I am opposed to any changes in the current rules regarding the use of dogs and hunting in Arizona.
3.  The petition trys to create a scene depicting animals such as jaguars, wolves, Ocelots are in danger when hounds are used in those areas. This cannot me further from the truth. There is no documented evidence of coyote hunters using dogs that have killed a wolf in inadvertently nor has their been any jaguars or Ocelots killed by houndsmen  inadvertently in our state. To say that this COULD occur is like saying the sky could fall at any moment and what are we going to do about it.
4. The use of tracking devices on dogs in no way manipulates or guarantees the outcome of treeing a lion or bear. Tracking devices do however help insure the safety of our dogs.
5. Hounds Risk to Public Safety- There are more dog attacks on a daily basis across the US that are non-hound related encounters than there ever will be with hounds used for hunting. As a matter of fact I would bet my paycheck that if you tallied up the breed of every dog attack in the US for one yr you would be hard pressed to see where a hound was involved. I occasionally encounter people while hunting and the most my hounds want to do is lick them and be petted.
6.  Hunting with dogs has been a part of our ancestral  roots dating back thousands of years. The partnering and training of a dog is the epidemy of fair chase. If you have never trained a dog to scent trail one or two specific species please do not make accusations you know nothing about. Again the use of tracking devices does not manipulate or increase the probability of catching game.
7. God made man the apex predator- Its sad to see how our society had detached themselves from god, nature and the land. Hunting and specifically hunting with my hounds is not only an ancestral tradition but is a god given right that is being threatened by people that believe its ok to let their kids stare at their phone for hours on end or don’t let little johnny know that someone killed that chicken he is eating for dinner. Where is the outrage in society that allows these people to slowly kill their children?
8. In closing I would like to reach out to the people on the petition and tell them lets do something more productive with your time and money. Lets join forces and remove all the feral donkeys and horses that are killing thousands of acres of habitat and stressing the native wildlife here in Arizona. Lets join forces and fund projects that removes invasive junipers from our public lands. Lets join forces and remove salt cedars from our streams and rivers.  Our wildlife is a god given renewable resource, and thanks to hunters, houndsmen, and fisherman is thriving today, don’t infringe on my ancestral heritage and my god given rights.

[25-06]

Thanks for the heads up Randy. And thank you Hoss 50 for the outstanding response.

[AZBIG10]

On 12/9/2024 at 6:50 AM, Hoss50 said:

Who went? 

If hunters don't step up for each other, the antis will come for the part of the tradition you want 1 day. They start with niche stuff most people don't like. Running dogs, Falconers, lion and bobcats. Then they go for bears and coyotes. No predator control leads to less deer and elk from you to hunt. Then they just go for more and more. 

Help me understand.Why do hunters have to defend this crap. We fit the bill. It’s azgfd revenue and helps them operate. Why doesn’t he department tell em to pound sand?

[Hoss50]

1 hour ago, AZBIG10 said:

Help me understand.Why do hunters have to defend this crap. We fit the bill. It’s azgfd revenue and helps them operate. Why doesn’t he department tell em to pound sand?

I believe they will. But if the groups can get the bills on the voting ballot like they did in CA and CO it will be up to the people of the states and if all hunters and outdoors enthusiasts don't stand together for the small niche items like this they will push farther and farther. 

I was happy to see at the meetings that other minority hunting groups were standing up against this too. Partially self serving, but some had no stake in this. 

People from quail groups, falconers, and others were there standing up and speaking up. Elk hunters, deer hunters, dove hunters, and everyone else needs to join in though too.