Newbie neck tension confusion

[Calebwalter]

So I literally just started reloading today. I’m using Hornady match grade dies for 6.5cm. Factory loaded precision hunter measures at .290 mid neck so using the guidelines from Hornady I bought .285, .286 and .287 bushings. I started with .287. After getting the die setup to bump the shoulder .002 I check the neck size and it’s ≈.283. I double measured the bushing and its right at .287. 
 

I am not using the expander, im just using the decapping retainer. 
 

Am I missing something, is this amount of neck tension going to be an issue?

 

thanks

[Calebwalter]

So I just put the elliptical expander in and now my neck is sized right at .287. 
 

are there any major accuracy disadvantages to running the expander? According to gunwerks videos they suggest not using it 🤷‍♂️ 

[452b264]

Is .283 case have a bullet seated? You should have 3 thou of neck tension, so .287 should be perfect.

 

I never use the expander. The neck bushing will leave the case neck straight, the expander not so much, and it over works the brass.

[Viper]

The bushing size depends on what brass you're using. You have to figure in the neck wall thickness. I use Hornady brass which is around .014" thick. I use a .289 bushing to get around .003" tension. Ex: .264 + .014 + .014 = .292

.292 - .289 = .003" tension

[L Cazador]

Did you use the Hornady Precision Hunter brass after you fired the factory round in your rifle or did you use new Hornady reloading brass? Don't understand how you got .283" neck diameter with a .287" neck bushing. It doesn't matter what the brass thickness is, sizing with a .287" bushing is going to give you that measurement. A thicker brass neck is going to render a larger " round diameter" at the neck. So if you measured a loaded factory neck there could be a disparaging difference between the factory round and your reloaded cartridge using the reloading brass. The right way to measure for bushing needed would be like mentioned above. Measure average neck thickness of the reloading brass and then add bullet diameter for a loaded round diameter. You would then use a bushing .002"-.003" less. Are you using a caliper or micrometer to measure neck. And nope don't use the expander, it introduces increased bullet runout. Frankly Hornady brass has a lot of runout. More runout than I would care to have. You may want to use Norma or Lapua brass. I neck turn all my brass whether it's for hunting or competition.

[Calebwalter]

On 9/22/2024 at 4:19 AM, 452b264 said:

Is .283 case have a bullet seated? You should have 3 thou of neck tension, so .287 should be perfect.

 

I never use the expander. The neck bushing will leave the case neck straight, the expander not so much, and it over works the brass.

I’m running once fired Hornady brass from my rifle. I ran the brass through the die with the .287 bushing and my neck outer diameter was .283. I feel like I’m missing something obvious since I’m a newbie. Probably going to call Hornady today and ask a bunch of dumb questions 

[Calebwalter]

On 9/22/2024 at 9:42 AM, Viper said:

The bushing size depends on what brass you're using. You have to figure in the neck wall thickness. I use Hornady brass which is around .014" thick. I use a .289 bushing to get around .003" tension. Ex: .264 + .014 + .014 = .292

.292 - .289 = .003" tension

I chose my neck bushing sizes based on the video Hornady published. They show 3 ways to measure for neck bushings. Option 1 is to measure outer neck diameter of a factory loaded round (mine was .290) and then subtract .003 for neck tension and another .001 for brass spring back. I ordered .285, .286, and .287 to be safe. 
Option 2 was to use a ball mic to measure neck thickness but I don’t have a ball mic yet, just calipers. 

[Calebwalter]

20 hours ago, L Cazador said:

Did you use the Hornady Precision Hunter brass after you fired the factory round in your rifle or did you use new Hornady reloading brass? Don't understand how you got .283" neck diameter with a .287" neck bushing. It doesn't matter what the brass thickness is, sizing with a .287" bushing is going to give you that measurement. A thicker brass neck is going to render a larger " round diameter" at the neck. So if you measured a loaded factory neck there could be a disparaging difference between the factory round and your reloaded cartridge using the reloading brass. The right way to measure for bushing needed would be like mentioned above. Measure average neck thickness of the reloading brass and then add bullet diameter for a loaded round diameter. You would then use a bushing .002"-.003" less. Are you using a caliper or micrometer to measure neck. And nope don't use the expander, it introduces increased bullet runout. Frankly Hornady brass has a lot of runout. More runout than I would care to have. You may want to use Norma or Lapua brass. I neck turn all my brass whether it's for hunting or competition.

I’m reloading the once fired Hornady brass shot through my tikka. 

I also don’t understand how I was getting .283. I think I’m going to call Hornady today and see if I’m missing something obvious. I’ve heard they have pretty good customer service. 
 

Im using calipers as of now, I didn’t know I needed a ball mic but I guess that’s part of the learning process. 

[Viper]

7 hours ago, Calebwalter said:

I chose my neck bushing sizes based on the video Hornady published. They show 3 ways to measure for neck ;h%Option 1 is to measure outer neck diameter of a factory loaded round (mine was .290) and then subtract .003 for neck cfvfc and another .001 for brass spring back. I ordered .285, .286, and .287 to be safe. 
Option 2 was to use a ball mic to measure neck thickness but I don’t have a ball mic yet, just calipers. 

I don't have a ball mic either, only calipers. I do what I can with that. I think my neck thickness measurements are close enough. I also run a .262" pin gage through each neck (poor man's mandrel).

[L Cazador]

I'm thinking that measurement was a misread of the caliper. Use the sharp end of the caliper to measure the neck, Mitutoyu, Starrett, and Fowler are most reliable calipers. Then there's the issue that bushing was mis marked. Try the next bushing below it and see what you get.

[Mike S]

Caleb, what is the outside neck diameter of a fired case? 

[Calebwalter]

1 hour ago, Mike S said:

Caleb, what is the outside neck diameter of a fired case? 

Outside diameters are:

new factory: .290

once fired: .294

resized using .287 bushing: .283

resized using .286 bushing: .286

where I get confused is I measured the .287 bushing and it appears to be .287. Idk if my calipers aren’t as accurate as I need them to be or if the bushing isn’t the correct size. 

[Calebwalter]

2 hours ago, L Cazador said:

I'm thinking that measurement was a misread of the caliper. Use the sharp end of the caliper to measure the neck, Mitutoyu, Starrett, and Fowler are most reliable calipers. Then there's the issue that bushing was mis marked. Try the next bushing below it and see what you get.

I tried that last night and it seems like the .286 bushing resizes them correctly. 

[Mike S]

Looks like you are good to go with the .286 bushing.

The reason I asked about the O.D. is based on experience with a Redding FL  Bushing Die for my .308. That die with thin walled .308 WW brass would size well below the marked bushing diameter. I believe that was due to sizing over .010" in one pass. Redding cautions not to try over .004" in one step if I recall correctly. 

Good luck with your reloading endeavors!

 

[L Cazador]

2 hours ago, Calebwalter said:

I tried that last night and it seems like the .286 bushing resizes them correctly. 

There you go, something wrong with that .287 bushing. I've seen that before with Hornaday. Hornady and the word "precision" is an oxy-moron, LOL! Enjoy your new founded reloading experience.