Is Shane Koury the next guide to lose license?

[Flatlander]

Pretty ironic that all this is going down after he ended up road bombing a 220” deer that ran in front of him after another hunter missed it.

Life’s a beach.

[654321]

2 minutes ago, Flatlander said:

Pretty ironic that all this is going down after he ended up road bombing a 220” deer that ran in front of him after another hunter missed it.

Life’s a beach.

It would be interesting to know how the AZGFD knew he was flying. Did someone from the public make a call to Operation Game Thief and report an aircraft flying in low circles appearing to locate wildlife and a WM just happened to be close enough to watch the aircraft land?  Was the aircraft he was using required to have a flight plan and the AZGFD tied that to him?  Was it another guide that was pissed he was flying and turned him in.  I would have to guess that there was undeniable evidence that he was indeed flying some sort of aircraft.  

[Flatlander]

2 hours ago, 654321 said:

It would be interesting to know how the AZGFD knew he was flying. Did someone from the public make a call to Operation Game Thief and report an aircraft flying in low circles appearing to locate wildlife and a WM just happened to be close enough to watch the aircraft land?  Was the aircraft he was using required to have a flight plan and the AZGFD tied that to him?  Was it another guide that was pissed he was flying and turned him in.  I would have to guess that there was undeniable evidence that he was indeed flying some sort of aircraft.  

How would I know any of this? I have heard some stories but it’s all hearsay. But it wouldn’t be very hard to see someone flying a small aircraft over the strip. You can see a long freaking ways and a lot of it right from St. George where the WM’s live. 
 

Also, I just thought it was funny that these flights likely had nothing to do with how his hunt ended up and all this trouble amounts is really for nothing.

[maximus]

i think is crazy where hunting is gone, flying drones and airplanes just to kill a deer or elk or whatever, to me is just ridiculous. 

[trphyhntr]

People have been been getting busted for flying illegally looking for big game for at least 30 years nothing new here. I bet it was a lot more prolific in the early 2000s than it is now. you couldn’t look up into the sky in elk country without seeing an ultralight in 2002. 
 

not sure about drones 

[trphyhntr]

10 hours ago, Flatlander said:

How would I know any of this?

i think hes telling us what happened. 

[Northern Pintail]

On 9/14/2024 at 12:03 AM, WhtMtnHunter said:

AZGFD definitely needs to adopt some ethics rules for its employees.  How about wardens are not allowed to apply/hunt for game in the unit they patrol.  I can think of two instances where this would alleviate some conflict of interest.  Unit 27 warden with an archery bull tag in his pocket doing aerial surveys 1-2 days before season opens, then shooting a 400+ bull he saw from the helicopter(otherwise never would have known about).  Unit 3B warden giving his tag to a friend to tag a bull he wounded and didn't recover on last day of the season(then gets 100k for being unreasonably reprimanded).  I'm sure there's many, many more cases I'm unaware of. 

Not defending the guide, personally don't like guides, but rules need to go both ways.

I had the same feelings as you did but actually looked into these matters.  Your “facts” are wrong.   The 27 wm and those in the helicopter did not see that 400 inch bull on that flight.  And because of people like you spreading rumors they try  and not to fly when they have a tag even though there are laws that say they still can.  

The 3b warden deal was not the last night of the hunt.  It was the first Sunday of the early archery hunt.   
 

no matter what you think about it your facts are won’t and that matters. 

[WhtMtnHunter]

7 minutes ago, Northern Pintail said:

I had the same feelings as you did but actually looked into these matters.  Your “facts” are wrong.   The 27 wm and those in the helicopter did not see that 400 inch bull on that flight.  And because of people like you spreading rumors they try  and not to fly when they have a tag even though there are laws that say they still can.  

The 3b warden deal was not the last night of the hunt.  It was the first Sunday of the early archery hunt.   
 

no matter what you think about it your facts are won’t and that matters. 

I'd love to see where you found this info.  I'm probably wrong, usually am actually. 

Seems that the truths/rumors would be easily alleviated if " wardens are not allowed to apply/hunt for game in the unit they patrol."?

[Flatlander]

2 hours ago, Northern Pintail said:
The 3b warden deal was not the last night of the hunt.  It was the first Sunday of the early archery hunt.   

That fact is immaterial. It’s illegal to have someone else tag your animal regardless of when it happens.

It was wrong and he knew better.

[Flatlander]

2 hours ago, WhtMtnHunter said:

Seems that the truths/rumors would be easily alleviated if " wardens are not allowed to apply/hunt for game in the unit they patrol."?

Seems like the only reason to do that would be to appease jealous dudes who are more worried about what others are doing than hunting themselves.

[Coues247]

6 hours ago, Flatlander said:

Seems like the only reason to do that would be to appease jealous dudes who are more worried about what others are doing than hunting themselves.

There are multiple laws/rules in the world to help avoid conflicts of interest. They aren't made "to appease" anyone. They are made to avoid giving employees an advantage over others and to avoid impropriaty. (Like getting to fly helicopters over units when others can't.) Even if that warden doesn't fly his own unit,  what do you think that first call is when his buddy who flew it for him sees a 400+ inch elk?

[Coues247]

9 hours ago, Northern Pintail said:

"And because of people like you spreading rumors they try  and not to fly when they have a tag even though there are laws that say they still can."

Thank goodness for people like him to help try and stop the BS that allows wardens to do what they please when they have a tag in their unit the patrol. It would be a shame if they had to follow the same rules as us.

"The 3b warden deal was not the last night of the hunt.  It was the first Sunday of the early archery hunt."

So poaching on the first Sunday of the hunt is OK but not the last night? Got it.

 

 

[Northern Pintail]

9 hours ago, Flatlander said:

That fact is immaterial. It’s illegal to have someone else tag your animal regardless of when it happens.

It was wrong and he knew better.

We are going to get into what words actually mean here but it’s not illegal for someone else to tag your animal with your tag.  Example.  We are both standing there at the deer, I shot it, I have the tag, I give you the tag and you put it on the antlers.   That is not illegal.  The elk case went in front of a judge so it was all public record.  

[Coues247]

19 minutes ago, Northern Pintail said:

We are going to get into what words actually mean here but it’s not illegal for someone else to tag your animal with your tag.  Example.  We are both standing there at the deer, I shot it, I have the tag, I give you the tag and you put it on the antlers.   That is not illegal.  The elk case went in front of a judge so it was all public record.  

So you're gonna say leaving your tag to let them finish off someone else's animal and then tagging it with their tag is perfectly legal? Is that you Shawn? 

 

Shawns civil case went before an administrative judge because the ones in charge in Pinetop didn't follow protocol in punishing Wagner. They did all they could to ensure Shawn never went before a criminal judge and it backfired on them when they finally decided they needed to do something to him. The question of whether he was guilty of a crime was pretty clear, it just never made it that far because everyone involved were wardens. 

 

Ars 17-340 (A)(5) is pretty clear. The commission may revoke someone's license if: Knowingly allowing another person to use the person’s big game tag. Just because an administrative judge found that his rights were violated doesn't mean he didn't break the law.

[Flatlander]

7 hours ago, Coues247 said:

There are multiple laws/rules in the world to help avoid conflicts of interest. They aren't made "to appease" anyone. They are made to avoid giving employees an advantage over others and to avoid impropriaty. (Like getting to fly helicopters over units when others can't.) Even if that warden doesn't fly his own unit,  what do you think that first call is when his buddy who flew it for him sees a 400+ inch elk?

Who cares who calls who? That warden could call anyone to share info about the 400” bull. Not sure what the big deal is other than some folks feeling it’s unfair cause they don’t get to do surveys for their job. My job doesn’t afford me the opportunity to be outdoors for work often. That doesn’t mean I should be mad that someone else works for border patrol and gets to use helicopters and infrared. So what. Life isn’t fair.