Drones during an open season (not for hunting)!

[daverp]

I see what AZ has to say about use of drones during and immediately preceding a big game season:
 

Section R12-4-319 - Use of Aircraft to Take Wildlife

 

A. A person shall not take or assist in taking wildlife from or with the aid of aircraft, including drones.

B. Except in hunt units with Commission-ordered special seasons under R12-4-115 and R12-4-120 and hunt units with seasons only for mountain lion and no other concurrent big game season, a person shall not locate or assist in locating wildlife from or with the aid of an aircraft, including drones, in a hunt unit with an open big game season. This restriction begins 48 hours before the opening of a big game season in a hunt unit and extends until the close of the big game season for that hunt unit.

 

I've recently become interested in drones for use while out camping, shooting, off roading, general exploring, etc.  Brother has one and we were messing with it the other day when I was over, and seems like a hoot.

But I wonder if anyone has received clarification on the above statute, or knows beyond what is stated in the statute where the "good side" of the line is.

If neither I, or nobody else in my party holds a tag during a big game season, would drones be ok to fly and even spy on some critter activity?   With big game seasons running from August to late Jan, that's a big chunk of time not to be able to explore with drones in the outdoors.

Is this like a spotlighting thing, where you can't spotlight wildlife while in possession of a firearm or other ability to take?

My only possible thought of uses in relation to hunting for me would be pre-season (well before season) terrain scouting.  We've all been there countless times.  You find what looks to be a promising glassing point on the topos, check vantage point / view with google earth, and all looks good until you get up there and find out you can't see a thing due to foliage in the way.   I can see how a drone could show pretty easily if the point has possibilities, or if boot leather and time would be better spent on other spots.

Son thought it would be cool to aerial film predator calling.  I'd have to agree, not yet knowing just how high you have to be to not screw up a calling session while still being able to get some footage of the action.

No real interest in droning over populated areas for fun, so if the "good side of the legal line" puts me at a point where I couldn't drone outdoors at all during a big game season (which most units obviously have running dang near consecutively from Aug to Jan), I may have to re-think a $2k type investment in a drone here.

I also realize that even if I'm on a great legal standing, and I happen to be flying a drone during an open season, there are going to be some guys wanting to take a shot at said drone.  But much like with shooting activities, I generally try to avoid target shooting in the woods where shooting might interrupt a great hunt for someone, and would behave similarly with any droning.

 

 

 

[PRDATR]

Shooting a drone is a federal offence. 

Use it with discretion, a little common sense goes a long way.

The ones I have seen were very noisy, like a bee hive on steroids, I'm sure yotes wouldn't notice. Wink Wink. Just turn up the volume on the e-caller.

[Curtis Reed]

I bring my drone to deer camp to take some aerial video shots of camp and us driving side by sides down the trail, etc.  I don’t use it for anything other than getting some cool shots for our trip videos.  

How I read the statute is you can’t use them to assist in harvesting the animal. I assume that means using it to locate animals, locating downs animals, etc.  That would also include preseason scouting (similar to trail cams).

It is totally legal to use a drone during a hunting season if you aren’t using it to aid in harvesting an animal. It would be ridiculous not to be able to fly a drone outdoors just because there is a big game hunt on the calendar.  

[daverp]

5 hours ago, PRDATR said:

Shooting a drone is a federal offence. 

Use it with discretion, a little common sense goes a long way.

The ones I have seen were very noisy, like a bee hive on steroids, I'm sure yotes wouldn't notice. Wink Wink. Just turn up the volume on the e-caller.

Ha, yep.  Ones I'm looking at though have a 4x optical and 28x digital zoom.  That should certainly do the job and get it high enough it won't bother the coyotes.  Now....locating an incoming coyote with the camera, trying to zoom in and then also track it on its way to the call would be an entirely different story.  Likely not worth the effort, but would make for a very cool vid if one could pull it off.

Saw a couple vids with guys monitoring coyotes with the drone, or trying to chase them off of their cows with a drone.  The coyotes (much to my amazement) generally seemed to not give a crap unless it was very low, very close, and coming right for them.  

Still in about mid-point stage of research, and getting ready to pull the trigger on one this week for an upcoming camp / shoot / way early scout session for a buddy's Dec. cow hunt in U7W.   Won't need it for even terrain scouting locations as I'm pretty sure I've covered most of that unit on foot over the last 40 plus years (home unit where I grew up) and know where we need to go, and know the elk will be there when we get there.  But I dang sure might send it up early a.m. in August just to see what elk are about in an area ahead of his December rifle cow hunt just for chits and grins.

As for consideration or worries about it getting shot out of the sky.... Like I said, I won't completely avoid the woods during seasons just because I don't have a tag, but I will avoid a lot of shooting in a game rich area, or doing much of anything that could screw up a tag for a guy that has been trying for it for years.  I dang sure wouldn't be flying a drone around in such a manner that it could interfere with someone's hunt (or even hunt experience).  I stay out of the woods period during premium hunts (early rifle bull, etc.)  But if I'm out during a general season rifle deer hunt camping (not hunting) I could see where someone could get bent out of shape, especially if they thought the drone's (my) intentions were other than on the complete up and up, get pizzed, and take a shot.  Chance to take I guess, but I'd be dang pizzed to lose a $2k flying camera in that event.

I'd be equally as pizzed to get a ticket and hefty fine from G&F just because I was flying a drone during archery deer season just because I happened to have a sidearm on me or rifles in the truck with no tags in camp due to very vaguely worded regulations open to a wide range of possible interpretations.  

[firstcoueswas80]

Keep in mind the burden of proof. It falls to the state, and they have to prove that you had intent to use it for illegal activity. I doubt anyone is going to prosecute if you have no rifle, no bow, and just a handgun for personal defense on your person. 

[Curtis Reed]

Don’t over complicate it.  If you’re using it for scouting or to give you an advantage on hunting animals, it’s illegal.  If you’re not, it’s not. 

[Sky Island junkie]

Common sense. 
And the next one of the little bastards that comes in and hovers over my wife working in her garden, she’s ready for ya this time!

[TR0UBLE SH00TER]

Easy way to clarify...

 

 

Arizona Game and Fish Department Headquarters

Phone #(602)-942-6000

Hours: Mon-Fri 8 AM-5 PM

 

[thegunsmith2506]

My brother in law is really into drones. Last year after the archery hunt we were out listening to bugles and he sent one up to see if he could spot the bull. I don't think they would really even be much help in most situations. Where we ran into an issue was on his sheep hunt he wanted to use it to take footage during the hunt of us driving and hiking but didn't want to risk it. 

[Sneaker]

If you are not hunting and will not use any of the information for your or others hunting, then it is allowed. Just as a non-hunter is allowed to fly airplanes or drones or run trail cameras to view wildlife year round, so are we. You just can't hunt in connection with any of the info gleaned.

If its a place that if you saw a 200" buck in July that you would want to come back and hunt on OTC in August, ya better not do it to start with.

[jgraffaz]

19 minutes ago, Sneaker said:

If you are not hunting and will not use any of the information for your or others hunting, then it is allowed. Just as a non-hunter is allowed to fly airplanes or drones or run trail cameras to view wildlife year round, so are we. You just can't hunt in connection with any of the info gleaned.

If it’s a place that if you saw a 200" buck in July that you would want to come back and hunt on OTC in August, ya better not do it to start with.

I don’t think that right. As long as it’s more than 48 hours before the season open, flying is okay. So if he flys in July and finds a deer and kills said deer in August that’s more than 48 hours before any big game season so he would be 100% legal. 

[Newbie2012]

2 hours ago, jgraffaz said:

I don’t think that right. As long as it’s more than 48 hours before the season open, flying is okay. So if he flys in July and finds a deer and kills said deer in August that’s more than 48 hours before any big game season so he would be 100% legal. 

Is it?  If your trail cam picked it up in July and you killed it in August, you'd be cited for aiding in take. 

It's not the flying thats the problem. You saw that buck in July and went back. You got intel via a drone and used it in August. That's a violation of  take. 

Subsection A is pretty clear.  At least to me it is. 

[HuntHarder]

Since flying and trail cameras are the same...  Some arguments are exceptionally weak...  

[jgraffaz]

41 minutes ago, Newbie2012 said:

Is it?  If your trail cam picked it up in July and you killed it in August, you'd be cited for aiding in take. 

It's not the flying thats the problem. You saw that buck in July and went back. You got intel via a drone and used it in August. That's a violation of  take. 

Subsection A is pretty clear.  At least to me it is. 

Thats the point the law is written different for trail cameras vs flying. It’s not the same. I agree with your trail camera argument but flying is not the same. I’m not a lawyer or a pilot (nor drone owner) so it doesn’t matter to me but that's my understanding of it. Another example that is similar is It’s illegal to spotlight with a firearm in the vehicle but completely legal to spotlight all night without a firearm and come back at first light without a light and with a gun to kill something. Thats my understanding of it. 

[jgraffaz]

54 minutes ago, Newbie2012 said:

Is it?  If your trail cam picked it up in July and you killed it in August, you'd be cited for aiding in take. 

It's not the flying thats the problem. You saw that buck in July and went back. You got intel via a drone and used it in August. That's a violation of  take. 

Subsection A is pretty clear.  At least to me it is. 

Also subsection B clarifies subsection A. If you read A without B I can see where the confusion comes from.