newbee Report post Posted February 11, 2005 IM not a writer, but if youre elbow deep in guts and not using a protective barrier ,and let say you cut /or /had cut your self and your open wound came in contact with a tainted bodily fluid ....wouldnt that too enable a blood bourne pathogen to get in your body??? >>>The above also isn't necessarily true of CJD. Isnt that how MURPHY'S LAW is able to take affect? ignoring possible risk. >>>As for what the "scientists" think, I've been covering CWD since the very first critter with .. we all know "scientific studies don't proove any thing, and that this war were in can be won by ARM-CHAIR Q'tr backs and generals out there >>>Are you aware that INGESTION appears to be the only way humans .. AGAIN murphy's law what can go wrong will go wrong. I don't know all the facts of this case,nor CJD. and if your not aware yet ,you do not either.nomater how long you have been writing about it. AND I do believe if you look past your own self righteousness for a moment ,you would see that .270 lost a buddy and is looking for reason why-not when you had indigestion last. newbee.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hunterdude Report post Posted February 11, 2005 outhouse writer, You remind me of a typical MEDIA PERSON, they seem to know everything but usually don't know much. The MEDIA is kept from alot of info for a reason the don't give all the fact's, they give only what they know. Why do you think that the media does not get to go in on some thing and report it, because they report what they think are the facts and not all the info. I don't have alot of respect for MEDIA PEOPLE I have seen to many things reported out of text. They will never admit being wrong they are to much above everyone else. When they are really at the bottom of the pond! You got your info second or third hand right so that does'nt hold much water for me. Now if you where the one doing all the investigation I would say you would be a good source of info but I don't think that you are the one doing all the research. I think there is more to it than what we all know. Back to the men in black suits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Report post Posted February 11, 2005 Lark, sorry about your friend. Its tough to lose a hunting buddy. I hope you and others close to him can find peace in the fact that if it was CWD from an elk that killed him, at least he was doing something he enjoyed. God Bless you all. Tony, everything you've said is consistent with what I've seen and read about CWD. Thanks for trying to enlighten folk with more than rhetoric and misconceptions. There is alot that we don't understand about prions and probably never will. I for one believe that CWD is not a new disease, but one that may cycle through its hosts periodically. Its discovery in the early 70's on the Wagner Ranch and CSU campus was primarily due to the work of a very intelligent and hardworking veternary student that was interested in the strange behavior of captive deer on the college campus and free ranging deer on the college ranch. She became the leading expert on spongiform encephalothopy and was making progress on field test for live ungulates. However, she and her husband (also a scientist involved with this research) were killed in a car accident this past December. Sadly, for those of us that believe science a usefull occupation, their deaths will set back progress on these diseases for several years. Is CWD something to be concerned about? As a hunter, I don't worry about it much. I won't kill an animal showing signs of the disease and my chances of dieing in a car wreck is a heck of lot higher than dieing from CWD. As a biologist, like I said before, I don't think it is new and believe that the deer herds are affected by many diseases when other stresses are above normal levels. Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted February 11, 2005 ok, so the way i read it, the outdoor writer is the only with an opinion that counts? all the rest o' the world is just a buncha rumor mongers. is that the way it is? i guess all the stuff i wrote about not really knowing how Jake got sick was overlooked. Jake got sick, he died. he felt like he got sick after dealing with a sick elk. that's fact. maybe he got it from an elk, maybe he didn't. nobody, not even outdoor writer, can say for sure. but he felt he did. cjd and cwd are nearly identical in all aspects, except know one really knows how you get it. i've always felt like cwd is something cyclic that just sorta bounces around like so many other unexplainable things in nature. i also now know, that the azgfd knew that there may be a problem and didn't bother to say a dang thing to the public about it. and it doesn't suprise me. i won't quit hunting over the deal. if i caught the crap and croaked it'd probably be justice, seein' as how many hundreds and hundreds of elk and deer i've put under, or at least helped on. i've read a bunch on this stuff in the past few days and one thing comes to the forefront, nobody really knows a lot about how this stuff occurs. to say it "never" occurs in certain ways or acts this way or that is real poor information, because nobody really knows. Jake went under, he was 66, it's a bad deal. those close to him will miss him. last time i saw him was during the late elk in Az. if he's right, then about the same time he got sick. i don't see any rumor in anything i just wrote. slingin' acussations back and forth doesn't help anything. saying that somebody is just spreading rumor, when i don't really see it that way, doesn't either. did any one person know that there may be a problem before i said anything? whatever. it's too bad all the way around. too bad the animals get sick. too bad Jake died. too bad some folks think that other folks shouldn't have an opinon. i'm done. Lark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted February 11, 2005 However, she and her husband (also a scientist involved with this research) were killed in a car accident this past December. Kevin, Yuppers. That would be Tom Thorne and Beth Williams. I had spoken to them several times over the years while researching articles on CDW. Good people and probably the most knowledgable in the world on CWD. They also did a lot of research on brucellosis. -TONY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted February 11, 2005 IM not a writer, ... Newbe, Yes, no need to tell anyone. It's obvious. don't know all the facts of this case,nor CJD. Here's the pertinent one -- once again. The cause of death was confirmed as Creutzfeldt-Jakobs Disease (CJD) NOT Chronic Wasting Disease. NO game animals anywhere have ever tested positive for CJD. Even Murphy can't change the above. -TONY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted February 11, 2005 outhouse writer, You remind me of a typical MEDIA PERSON, Hunterdude, And you remind me of the typical big mouth who thinks ad hominen attacks change facts. They don't. All they do is make the point that you have no facts to put forth. Grow up. Have a nice night. -TONY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newbee Report post Posted February 12, 2005 outhouse (i like that HD) Yuppers. That would be Ed Thorne and Beth Williams. I had spoken to them several times over the years while researching articles on im sorry but name droping or use of scientist names still does not make you credible ...good try though. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, sitting outside on the pattio doesnt make you an "OUTDOOR" writer. ??? he didnt just insinuate.. HE DID!!..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diamondbackaz Report post Posted February 12, 2005 This is a web site on CWD http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/about.faq Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hunterdude Report post Posted February 12, 2005 OUTHOUSE WRITER, who said I was trying to change facts. I never said anything to change the fact that you seem to think you are the upmost authority on cwd,cjd. I guess you think nobody has ever read anything about any of this and that everyone is below you in the amount of knowledge on this subject. I'm not saying that I know alot about this but I have read some on the mysteries of cwd and alot of them say to beware . Why would they say beware if there is nothing to worry about? Sounds kind of odd doesn't it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
257stw Report post Posted February 12, 2005 A lot of s**t talkin goin on here! From an outsider, it is obvious that, regardless of where he got it from, Outdoor writer knows more of the facts here than anyone. I think that we should all be careful and look for unusual behavior in the animals we hunt, take care when field dressing etc. Truth of the matter is that we all stand a better chance of being shot and killed by some booger eater in the woods than getting CJD or CWD. And no, my theory on this isnt proven by any research !!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted February 12, 2005 Diamondbackaz, That's an excellent site for FACTUAL information. The paper CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE: IMPLICATIONS AND CHALLENGES FOR WILDLIFE MANAGERS by Beth Williams is a good overview. One FACT to pay attention to is the incubation period of CWD. The minimum time that has been proven in wildlife has been 15 months from EXPOSURE. That was the reason I had asked someone the question about how long it takes for the disease symptoms to appear. Now if anyone here really wants to learn something about CWD, instead of citing the expertise of Murphy, attend the 2nd International CWD Symposium in July. The first one in 2004 was quite informative since those taking part DO KNOW what they're talking about. -TONY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ernesto C Report post Posted February 12, 2005 I will like to invite everyone to keep things under control,polite and civilize please. I will like you guys to know that I have learn a lot from the posts the all of you my fellow member made on this forum not only on this topic but on several others as well but I hate when things get out of control and I'm sure you guys too. Why we dont help each other instead of arguing? any body can get sick,I'm not different than anyone I get sick too;so lets keep posting usefull information for all of us and for the improvement of the quality of this site. I dont want my doughter who likes to hunt (she is only 9) to come and read/see hunters arguing when everything should be fix with a "I'm sorry,my mistake etc etc" You know I better quit typing because this issue is getting my feelings and emmotions boiling and I may not controled and I may post something I should not. God bless you all and Lord I thank you because I was really close to die of brucellosis but you saved me one more time. God bless CWT.com Ernesto C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hunterdude Report post Posted February 13, 2005 ENOUGH SAID! AMEN!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azhuntnut Report post Posted February 17, 2005 http://www.azgfd.com/artman/publish/article_251.shtml Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
