Being patient after the shot....

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

This might turn into a Nuke thread... but if we all stick to the FACTS as to what has worked for us in the past, including tempatures, time, hit location angle of impact, etc. etc. We as a group may be able to help other guys in the future not make the same mistake that we have done or seen... allowing them to recover more game.

 

I have personally helped in the harvest and recovery of nearly 25 coues deer since 2001, for myself, family and friends. It does not make me an expert, but I have learned from successes as well as failures over the years. I thought rather than writing a book we could pin a thread and colletively add over time things that will aid guys in what to do next. Again this has to be a possitve ONLY thread.... hang your "ethics police" hat by the door on the way in.

 

Thanks in advance if this works and Amanda (and Hall Monitors ) Please nuke this thread if it goes wrong.

 

 

I'm gunna throw my $.02 at a thread that I saw a week or so here about a potential gut shot.....

 

My personal window of succes on gut shots has been waiting at least 8-12 hours or longer. My reason for this is that in thick country and no blood trail if you "bump" a wounded animal once, he is gone forever. (Of course this would be different in open country and I hope someone will post about that.) We have never lost meat on deer that we left and did not bump. Once you bump them, you often times will not find them before some meat loss occurs. Again.... this is in thick country with temp highs no more that 50-55 degrees and lows near freezing.

Note: this also applys for me when rifle hunting.

 

Hope this works! Thanks!

[CouesWhitetail]

I think this will be a very informative thread. I don't archery hunt much, so I can't offer much advice, but would love to learn more on the ways experienced archers have been most successful in recovery of animals. Thanks for starting the discussion Gino. The collective wisdom of archers on this site surely has a lot to offer.

 

Amanda

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

 

 

I'm gunna keep going.... hoping someone else will put up some info.

 

 

I will not go after any animal rifle or archery in less than 45 minutes unless I can see that they are 100% dead.

[Mr. Jonathan]

Ok, I've got some questions pertaining to this, not exactly 'advice' since I'm still learning so much. If this is out of place for the thread, forgive me.

 

I once helped a friend track a deer that was shot through both haunches. The shot went so bad because the deer made a 90 degree turn as the arrow was released and what would have been a center shot ended up hitting the hams. Regardless of whether or not the shot should have been taken, it was, and unfortunately it went bad. I watched the deer run/hobble off, and I could see blood on the opposite ham, meaning the arrow had punctured through both rear legs. The shot hit no guts, and broke no bones, it was entirely muscle. To make matters worse, after waiting around half an hour to 45 minutes, we were left with only half an hour or so of light. We picked up the trail, and initially there was a lot of dark red blood. The arrow was soaked in blood, and to double check for a possible gut shot, there was no material or odor on the arrow except blood. we pushed the trail about 100 yards with good blood, but ran out of light and elected to return in the morning. Upon arriving in the morning, we immediately resumed the trail which promptly dried to the tiniest of pin pricks every twenty feet or so. All in all, the last blood was about 150 yards from the shot, and was literally the size of pencil lead diameter. At that point we spent a long and somber day following deer tracks and trails and eventually a grid walk that in the end revealed no deer anywhere. The trail we found went up an down several steep ravines, and not the characteristic downhill approach of a hurt deer. Unfortunately we never recovered this deer.

 

My questions are: If the shot was purely muscular in nature, and missed the femoral artery, the only way that wound would be fatal is through continued hemorrhaging, right? Why then, did the blood trail end so abruptly? Is it a reasonable assumption that the deer lived? (NOTE: A brand new thunderhead broadhead was used, razor sharp blades, and I think 1.25 inch cutting diameter)

 

Also, the one question that really bothers me, is did we make the right choice to leave and come back in the morning? In hindsight I feel haunted that if perhaps we had kept on the deer through the night, we would have continued to bump it and help the bleeding continue. I'd sure appreciate any input on this situation.

[crazy4COUES]

Mr. Jonathan, to answer your questions:

Deer blood coagulates twice as fast as human blood (or so I have read). And if it was a muscle only shot then yes it will scab up and stop rather quickly.

 

Yes I feel you made the right choice in waiting. If you continued to push the deer it may have allowed more blood flow, but only prolonged and complicated locating the animal.

[Coues Sniper]

I'd sure appreciate any input on this situation.

 

I think you did the right thing. And IMO the deer probably lived. I believe the blood trail ended abruptly because the deer began to lick the wound. A few years ago I helped a friend kill his first buck that was a little 2 point. He killed it with a rifle. When I was going to show him how to gut it i noticed an arrow shaft sticking out about 1" to the side of his rectum. I cut the arrow out that was embedded in the deer's pelvis and it was about 8" in length. No arteries or organs were affected. There was no infection whatsoever, and no sign at all that the deer was injured. The deer ran like a rocket after he was hit. And this was a 2 1/2 year old Coues. In your situation, I think the deer would have had an easier time healing and making it.

[SilentButDeadly]

If you're talking shot placement, a broken leg will not stop an animal from clearing out of the area, with a broken front leg an animal can still push hard on their hind legs and move as quickly uphill as a healthy one. A gut shot animal will keep walking until it feels safe enough to lay down, eventually it will go to water but probably not until it gets really thirsty (+ you've gotta know ALL of the water sources in an area). A meat shot (loin, hindquarter, neck) animal will likely do the same thing as a gut shot animal, although they are even less likely to die quickly (infections take a long time, days, weeks, months) and are more mobile and likely to leave the area they were wounded.

 

If you're hunting in open country, and you know your shot was bad, back off and climb the closest peak or hillside that will give you a view of where you suspect the animal has gone. No need to follow the blood trail right away; your #1 priority should be to relocate the animal and keep tabs until it beds down. If the shot is at dusk, you've got little chance of finding him by chasing that evening, you're best hope will be to glass the next morning anyway (hopefully after a cell phone call and more sets of eyes and feet to help push and locate the animal out of bed if you can't find him by glassing). Once its bedded begin a second stalk, same tactics as any other stalk.

 

Another rule of thumb is to get another arrow knocked ASAP, get that second shot off if you can, then a third, and even a fourth, even after they've laid down the last time (to make sure its the last!). You never know if that first shot was good enough, look at all the guys who come on here and say 'I thought the shot was a good one'. I diced my first Coue's @ 15 yards through a lung, liver, stomach, and cut his femoral with one quartering toward shot, it still took him over 20 minutes to pass (and that was after I shot him twice more laying down).

 

If you're hunting in the forest or there is no way to glass them, you've gotta give them time, I don't hunt the shut-in country so I won't comment on this.

 

Over the years we've hunted several animals that had been wounded (either by us or other hunters), with only a couple exceptions we were unable to finish them off. Broken leg or 'meat' shot animals have escaped us most often, gut shot ones we've gone 100% on.

[COOSEFAN]

Great idea to start this thread Gino!

 

Mr. Jonathan, not having seen the actual shot placement I couldn't tell ya if the shot would be fatal or not, but I would guess a pass through on a large part of the body is more than likely fatal...but you never know. I've seen animals that have carried an arrow shaft, broadhead, or even bullet fragments for years before being shot again by another hunter...and only after field dressing it became appearant the animals had been wounded before! So there is hope the animal can recover, but not likely with infection or shut down of vital organs or tissues...but that all depends on the shot location.

 

I'll throw my pride out the window for the sake of sharing honestly in this discussion. I have hunted with a bow ever since I was just out of diapers, I killed my first archery deer at 13 and many critters since. In my younger years i made a lot of mistakes (well, at least more than I do now ) but I was generally lucky in recovering my animals even though a made a few very bad shots.

 

A couple that stand out for me are very similar to the shot you described Mr. Jonathan. I shot a perfectly broadside deer smack dab in the hip, I'd like to say he jumped the string but I honestly don't remember. I was probably pullin' 45 lbs at the time and shooting my trusty ol' Gamegetter II's and Satellite broadheads. The arrow only went in a few inches and the deer ran off with the arrow noticeably stuck in bone. I let the deer go for several hours without pushing it. The deer didn't bleed at all but soon laid down. I ended up finally circling far enough that i bumped into the buck and he couldn't get up becuase of the steepness of the mountain and the broadhead had popped the rear leg out of the socket, I put a lethal arrow in him at that point and he was mine. Tons of luck involved with that one!

 

Another buck, many years ago, I did the same thing. This time I was pulling more weight and shooting a heavier arrow. The shot was probably too far for my setup, but I was accurately confident and took it. The deer did jump the string this time and the arrow went through both rear legs just below the belly line. My arrows were heavy alluminums with 4 blade Muzzy's and it destroyed both back legs and the deer was down going nowhere, but again, I had to put another shot in him. I could plainly see I had no choice but to finish the job and not wait on this one.

 

One last one that is similar to Mr. Jonathan's, this time it's more recent. My archery Antelope seriously jumped the string and my arrow hit the complete opposite side of the animal and again...right in the hip! I stalked that buck several times that day, missed him once and hit him once more in the exact same spot as the first arrow because he was able to still jump the string! I had zero blood to follow and the country was rolling hills with lots of cover....not good! I went an entire 2nd day just walking circles and glassing with my friends and nobody ever seen the buck. The 3rd day we climbed a small knob again and just glassed hoping for crows. My buddy glassed up my buck bedded down and still alive! I made the stalk of my life and made a perfect shot at 50 yards after the buck jumped up and took off running but I was able to stop him for the shot. We later found that one of my "hip" shots had penetrated enough that the anal canal was blocked causing a backup that was sure to be fatal in another day or two.

 

In all cases I felt very bad for my animal and the poor shot placement, the Antelope really made me question the ethics of using archery equipment on them, there is only so much you can do but then your left with whatever the animal does after the arrow is already in the air!

 

These are just a couple scenarios, but it illustrates some similar instances I've had with similar shot placement as Mr. Jonathan described.

 

My guidelines are:

 

-Always wait at least 45 minutes

 

-If you know it's a gut shot, back out quietly and don't return for at least 12 hours! The exception to this is rain, snow or hunter pressure. Like has been said, the animal will go a short way and lay down when it feels safe, if pushed they can go forever! If it looks like it will rain or snow then track the animal but stalk him as though he is still alive...he probably is! I've seen a bull last for over 11 hours gut shot...and we still lost him, even after getting a 2nd arrow in em'!

 

-Never push a wounded animal, always be patient and give em' plenty of time....I'd rather lose a few steaks than the whole animal!

 

-Always mark the last track or blood and look for irregularities in the track or identifiable trademarks such as shape, drag marks, or one side landing heavier than the other.

 

-Never get in a hurry while tracking, never get ahead of the track regardless how good the trail is, and constantly glass ahead incase the animal is alive and can be finished off before spooking.

 

-Pay attention to all your surroundings, observe all the clues present to help you recover the animal!

 

 

 

 

 

[Tines]

This is a good thread. If you think about it, why are so many animals lost? Inexperience! It starts from the shot, all of the way to the recovery of the animal. So many experiences are gained through just "doing it" out in the field. And what better reason to share YOUR experience if it helps in the recovery of someone elses animal.

 

It's obvious that most scenerios are so different that there can't be a given distance/time/weapon that's just the "perfect" answer for all. That's where common sense comes in. If we're honest with ourselves and consider all of the circumstances, you should have no reservations about tracking a wounded animal, regardless of the outcome.

 

Couple quick stories: I LITERALLY chased a pig down for 2.5 miles one time because I sent a poorly placed arrow on it's way through the hocks of a javelina. It was about to rain, I was in the flats, the pig couldn't move too fast (at least jogging speed for myself) and there was NO blood. All things considered, I decided to actually run after this pig. I'd almost NEVER recommend this to anyone. BUT, it was excactly what needed to happen for me to finish this pig off. Finally I tired the pig out and as it stopped to turn back and look at me, I was already at full draw and finished her off. My only complaint was the fact that I was now 2.5 miles FURTHER than where I first hit her! It's all a bunch of fun memories now..

 

Now for the bad story. I helped a buddy on his rifle WT hunt last year. We put the stalk on the buck while my dad stayed back and watched through the binos. We got set up at 350yds and he just pile-drived the buck. I knew he hit the buck high but he dropped hard and his legs straight up in the air. We watched him for another 10-15 minutes and he never moved. It took us another 20-30 minutes to get over to the buck. My dad let us know that everything was fine until about 20 yds from the buck he say's "he's up, he's up!!!!!" I look up and the buck's staring at us. Before my buddy could get another shot in him, he stumbled over the little ridge. We took off over to the top, knowing that we'd see him, and nothing! He was gone!!! It was open, SoAz terrain so I just knew he couldn't make it out without us seeing him. Anyway, long story short, he did! I couldn't believe it! Still can't! We searched for a long time and nothing came of it......

 

The part where I kick myself was I KNEW it was a high hit. But I thought 45 minutes, motionless, was enough to determine that he was dead. Here's my suggestion- Regardless of shot placement, always error on the side of the animal. You'll always come across more stories of people NOT waiting long enough, as opposed to those who wait TOO long.......

 

[Kevin]

Some really good info provided so far. Jim mentions rain and snow as being determining factors in not waiting on a gut shot and I'll add another weather factor for any shot. Most of us probably realize by paying attention to the clouds that it might rain or snow and adjust our determing factors for making a shot, ie. shorter range than we would typically be confident in or maybe even not hunting at all because of the chances of losing the trail if it does rain. I've been involved twice with trailing an animal that was shot when there was a heavy frost on the ground.

 

The first was a good lung shot and the blood trail was visible from where the shot was taken. We waited about half an hour for the deer to die and began trailing what we anticipated as an easy followup. Problem was, that during our half hour wait, the frost melted off and with it went 99% of the blood trail. We were lucky in the fact that the shot was good and the buck only made it about 100 yards. By following his tracks and finding smears of blood on the unfrosted sides of leaves we found him.

 

The second was a high shot, just under the spine and further foward than it should have been. Although, from my previous experience with the frost, I decided to give the buck some time and backed out. I knew the going would be tough when we started the trail but felt the deer wouldn't cover as much ground if not pressured. We spent several hours on hands and knees to cover less than 100 yards that morning. The ground was rocky and no tracks could be found but in the crevacass of those rocks we were able to find what was left of the blood by spraying peroxide on suspect color. We eventually found the buck bedded and alert but too hurt to get up. A follow up shot finished him on the spot. I still feel if we had pushed on before the frost melted we would have bumped him before he was too sick to flee and we never would have found him.

 

My point is, if in doubt, always wait if weather conditions allow and learn to make informed decisions. Also, don't start on a blood trail with the attitude that you'll never find this animal! Just as important, don't be over confident and miss a detail that might be the difference between success and failure. That includes rushing a trail because you know it was a perfect shot. I think any of us that have bowhunted very long have found an animal at the end of a a trail and was suprised the shot wasn't where we thought it was.

 

Two other points before I hang up. For the best blood trails, always shoot shaving sharp broadheads. I don't care what brand you shoot, mechanical or fixed, make sure they are sharp. Many brands that advertise as being "razor sharp" are far from "hunting sharp" in my opinion. If you shoot heads with replaceable blades, have some on hand to swap out. Wetness and vibration from day to day hunting will take the edge off quickly. Learn to touch up your heads daily while recounting your days experiences to your buddies or in your head before you turn in. Secondly, take a Bowhunter ed class even if you have several years of experience. You probably will learn something new and if not, you can provide insight to less experienced hunters in the group. They will certainly benefit from discussions just like this one.

 

Good topic Coues and Sheep!

 

Kevin

 

 

[TwoGuns]

In the last several years, I have seen some amazing things happen.

 

Two years ago, on a bull hunt, my buddy shot a bull quartering away at about 50 yards. The shot was a little back, but was angled into the chest cavity. We felt like the shot was mostly in the guts, and we backed off for several hours before looking for him. We shot him at 8 am, and started looking after lunch. Eventually, about 6pm, we ended up finding him quite a ways away while on a quad. The bull was just laying there as we drove up, but his horns were up in the air. I got all excited figuring the bull was dead as we drove up to about 20 yards, but the bulls eyes were closed and with the antlers up we werent sure even though we were right next to him on the quad. Anyway, to be sure, my buddy puts another arrow into him, and the bull jumps up and tears off down the hill at 100 miles an hour! I was in shock...I was left standing there with my mouth open in amazement. He had been playing dead the whole time. The second shot was a double lung shot and he only went just over a hundred yards before he died. When we cleaned him, we found that the first shot was pretty good, but was mostly in the liver and was still inside the chest cavity. We also found a Muzzy broadhead attached to a broken off arrow sticking out of his neck. He had been shot at least a year before as the skin had healed up around the arrow.

 

Lessons learned: a) liver / gut shot animals probably do need about 12 hours to die

they can play dead but still be very much alive!

c) dont shoot them in the neck with a Muzzy

 

 

I shot a mule deer last year that was standing broadside, and I knew the shot was pretty good (watched the Lumenok fly all the way to his chest), but did feel it was a little low. The buck turned and walked away like nothing happened, then just trotted off over the hill. We couldnt find the arrow, but found good blood within a few yards of where he had been standing. After a 45 minute wait, we went to following the blood trail which was as good a trail as you can hope to have. We found him bedded down about 200 yards away, but with his head up looking around. We waited and watched for quite a while, and eventually I snuck up on him to about 30 yards while he laid there. I was able to stick him good a second time but was amazed at how much energy he still had left as he bolted almost 200 yards through the woods before he laid down for the last time. Fortunately, I was able to see him the whole time. The first shot was good, and he was going to die within a few hours. There had been a huge amount of blood to follow, but the low shot allowed the blood to flow out of his chest cavity and never filled up his lungs. The first arrow had hit the back of his heart.

 

Lessons learned: a) 45 minutes is the minimum waiting period for me from now on, more like an hour to two

what seems to me like TONS of blood, was not so much

c) better to hit em high, than hit em low

 

 

Great topic. I have enjoyed reading others experiences and cant wait to read the rest.

 

 

[Rembrant]

12 hours is the consistant time frame used in these posts for the trailing of a gut shot. Many years ago a friend from Ohio told me to wait 24 hours on a gut shot, and that the animal's likely route of escape would be in a straight line, and probably won't go more than a hundred yards - if that.

I think that is good advice.

Only in that situation once, with an elk that I liver shot. I did not heed that advice and pushed him. Only then did I wait until the 24 hours from the shot time and began trying to trail. The area was way too concentrated with elk tracks and I had no blood to work with. I was simply "going through the motions" of grid walking when I heard a crash and heavy breathing. I snuck up to the where I thought the sound came from and found my bull freshly expired. I had actually heard him fall!!

I think 24 hours is the best strategy for gut shots.

Mike

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Hey all! Great input. I know that we all may not agree with some of the opinions of others, but if you see something that goes against your grain on this thead Don't point it out, rather just write you own post showing another point of veiw. I have spoken to Amanda and "the Hall Monitor" and we all don't want any debate on this thread... it will simply be deleted.

 

Every post so far has been benificial for me and others I have spoken to read , Thanks!!!

 

I'm gunna touch on an issue that I beleive is KEY to recovering game quickly with a stick & string. A while back we had a member that lost a buck on long shot. I asked him if he would give me details on the hit after he found, shot, and recovered his buck about a week later. At that distance he knew that he put in the wheel house on the buck, what he did not notice was that it was a touch high. Clipping one lung only.... and the buck was still alive one week later. These critters are a lot tougher and more resourseful than we give them credit for. And this is my point of this post........

 

The kill zone on any animal is NOT anything like a 3D target, if you want high success recoveries, IMO. I tell EVERYONE that will listen to me that the bottom half of the body is the kill zone, anything above that is low percentage recovery. I also tell eveyone to stop aiming at the impact side, center of mass on the animal.... Aim for your EXIT HOLE. If you can invision where you want the arrow to leave a hole on the opposite side and hit that exit, you will almost always recover your game.

 

For all my Archery Coues Deer Fanatical Friends here is a tip! God placed a 12 ring right on the side of a Coues deer for all of us to aim at!!! It is the lil' white patch right at the back of the elbo.... that white patch covers the heart! I even shoot at that spot from an elevated possisition.

 

A few years back I was sitting a treestand and had a doe and fawn working up the draw past me when the doe's head perked up and looked behind me. Here he came bee-lining straight for her! I hate to stop a coues deer for the shot cuz it gives them the opportunity to react (yes a coues can jump your string at 14 yds if allerted). I was shooting about 30 degrees down at 18.5 yds at a walking buck.... At full draw I kept repeating, "White dot, White dot...." I held my 20 on the front side of the dot (on the elbo) and let her fly! I saw the arrow hit at the back edge of the dot! The buck shot out to about 30, then 40 starting to slow as he reached 50 he stopped turned to go down hill and died on his feet, tumbling back down the hill!!! When I got down I walked over to get my arrow and saw the most amzing blood trail I have EVER seen..... blood spray 3.5 feet up on the bushes on both sides... all the way to the buck. A blood trail HELEN KELLER could have followed!! What I left out was that the buck was slightly quartered walking past and the arrow exited in front of the leg, also cutting throught the front foreleg on exit... that is how low and forward I hit.... when I gut the buck out I found that at that angle and that far forward I cut the top of the heart off.... and had it been a perfect broadside my POI would have center punched that heart... white dot = 12 ring on a live coues!!!!

 

The moral of my story is this.... I think that you CANNOT aim too low on coues deer..... if you miss low you shoot under them cleanly. On elk I no they have a heavier rib cage and brisket, make that statement less true..... But Blood in the cavity of an animal holds the organs in place allowing the animal to live longer. If you pull a drain plug on the oil pan of your truck it ain't going very far! Put atleast one hole in the bottom or close to the bottom of a critter and you just let all the oil out of the engine!!! I have never seen a low (cavity) hit on a coues that did not result in death!

 

Again, my $.02....

[Rembrant]

CnS,

That could very well be the most important post I have ever read on this site.

Thanks,

Mike

[John O]

I have been bowhunting less than a year, and have taken a whitetail and a Javelina. I am no expert, but have done a lot of homework. As I learned during my javelina hunt, after the shot if the animal can't be located easily, a million thoughts start going through your head. Here is the guiding principal I use to help me keep things in perspective. The animal does not know it has been shot! If it were you or me, we would grasp at our chest or belly, knowing that death is imminent because we understand the gravity of the situation. To the animal, something just happened that wasn't right, now something hurts or doesn't work that did before, and nothing but instinct kicks in. I think too often we expect the animal to understand what has happened, and react accordingly. Now, with this in mind, following all of the rules as far as wait time, tracking, trailing, etc. can be followed and kept in perspective at the same time. This may sound a little dumb, but it has helped guide me while attempting to locate these two animals I have shot.