.270 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 ain't that a kick in the groin? you can't legally trap in Az., public land anyway, which to me is what Az. is, but you have to have a license if you do, on private land. wonder if anybody ever thought of high fence trappin'? fence in the varmints and have folks pay to catch em. i know that trapping did a lot to keep coyotes and lions in check. didn't keep things perfect, but there were a lot of coyotes trapped every year and enough lions trapped incidently to help. numbers of both have really came up since then. as far as ethical, quit using that word. all it is is a fancy word for someone's opinion and you never want to legislate opinions. my family trapped for generations. i still have a buncha traps. not much use for em now. good ornaments maybe. all legholds and any size and shape you can think of. leg hold traps don't bother me in the least. what suffers more? a coyote in a trap overnight or a deer gutshot with a bow? or for that matter, a kid gettin' aborted? there's some ethics for ya. life in general can be rough. life in the wild can be a mean thing. the final result of trapping, hunting, fishing and abortion is that something dies. at least in the first 3, there is a good reason for it and a benefit at least to the perons who gets to keep the catch and use it. trapping is no better or worse than anything else in the wild world. it's just a thing. and it did provide a needed service. and it is a lot of fun. well, it was. Lark. p.s. ok, the abortion comments are really tasteless and i meant it that way. because abortion is considered "ethical". and a lotta folks that consider it ethical, consider hunting, fishing and trapping unethical. i'm tryin' to kill birds with one stone. portray my feelings about trapping and get folks to understand why i keep hollerin' about "ethics". it's a loaded weapon and it will go off in your pocket if you ain't careful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kilimanjaro Report post Posted January 21, 2009 what suffers more? a coyote in a trap overnight or a deer gutshot with a bow? The sky really is falling,... a comment that came from Lark that I agree with 100%. I think trapping is WAY more humane than bowhunting in general. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffcountry Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Predator Hunting and Trapping . Has a nice ring to it . Thank you , Amanda . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Non-Typical Solutions Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Watch a coyote eat a fawn while it is half way out its mama and tell me that ain't just cruel and inhumane. Fact of life in the day of a coyote and a would be born antelope. Life in general has some pretty ugly twists, leghold traps can be managed as well as any other form of taking animals and is pretty educational for a youngster, teaches responsibility, beats the heck out of playing a d@mn video game........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffcountry Report post Posted January 23, 2009 "ethics". it's a loaded weapon and it will go off in your pocket if you ain't careful. and that 's why you never ,never ,ever go into a bar with your "ethics" stuck in the waistband of your sweat pants ! All kidding aside , that is a very profound statement . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hunter4life Report post Posted January 24, 2009 what suffers more? a coyote in a trap overnight or a deer gutshot with a bow? I think trapping is WAY more humane than bowhunting in general. Scottyboy, I agree with you 100%. My brother and I did a bit of trapping for grey fox when we were kids and it was fun and challenging. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted January 26, 2009 don't misconstrue my statement "gutshot with a bow" as having anything in for archery. it was just a parable. if my shoulders were still good, i'd still bowhunt. i love it and when i was a good bowhunter i actually prefered it. all i'm saying is that everything is "unethical" to somebody. i'm all for trapping, all for rifle and bow hunting. heck, if they had a season where all you could use was a busted wine bottle i'd go on that too. i'm all for fishing. i'm also all for birdwatching, hiking, botany, entimology, logging, ranching, farming, mountain biking, 4 wheeling, mining, anything, as long as it's done legally, has merit, and as long as the others don't try to restrict me from doing what i want and take away my rights and freedoms. for some reason, most folks think that whaever they don't happen to like is "unethical". joint use, it ain't just for dope smokers anymore. Lark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZantlerhead Report post Posted January 29, 2009 Well, your very Welcome , to all you trapping buffs, as well as anyone who like myself loves our rights that day by day are decaying and vanishing before our very eyes. I say your welcome for bringing it to everyones attention the importance for the General Public, Our Sportsmans community and anyone who likes Freedom to support Trapping for future generations. It's a great american pastime shared by friends and family and a huge part of the settlement of the West, and American History. I hope I won't need a liscense to antler hunt on private ranches in the future, after being outlawed from state & federal lands. Thanks to all for filling me in " all about trapping". and eat my shorts to anyone who got offended at me bringing up this subject in the first place . I'd say I was right , at least once in a blue moon anyhow . It's an Important topic and one that needs our support.Thanks Amanda, for seeing that though nieve on the subject, I knew it's importance, interest by sportsman, and a need to support it. And thank's to everyone who shared there honest opinion, or ETHIC. HAHAHA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Jonathan Report post Posted January 30, 2009 what suffers more? a coyote in a trap overnight or a deer gutshot with a bow? The sky really is falling,... a comment that came from Lark that I agree with 100%. I think trapping is WAY more humane than bowhunting in general. Wow. I wasn't going to at first, but then I was like, "Really?" Obviously an opinion is just that, but a little validation could go a long way. And with the pressure that hunting is getting on all sides, some opinions could be left unsaid. I've watched several animals expire in literal seconds, faster than a gun even, when shot well with a bow. And a gut shot deer has maybe twelve hours. But a dog in a trap line for 24 or more is more humane? What about the dogs that get their muzzle broke in a trap and suffocate? I'm all for trapping, and I'm also for an elevated perspective on issues that demand a little more investigation. We're all ambassadors of our hunting and outdoor passions, whether in the field or on this site. Some diplomacy could go a long way, especially since I imagine that what is revealed on this site is probably indicative of what goes on in the field. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues 'n' Sheep Report post Posted January 30, 2009 Watch a coyote eat a fawn while it is half way out its mama and tell me that ain't just cruel and inhumane. Fact of life in the day of a coyote and a would be born antelope. Life in general has some pretty ugly twists, leghold traps can be managed as well as any other form of taking animals and is pretty educational for a youngster, teaches responsibility, beats the heck out of playing a d@mn video game........ +1!!!! As I have mentioned before I have had my hands caught in leg hold traps more than once.... it does not break bones and it does immediately go numb.... and it might get kinda tingly for 6 monthes or so when your hands a really cold. Mother Nature is WAY more cruel than any normal method that humans use to take, dispatch, harvest or kill animals. Mother Nature has all kinds of wicked tools.... predators, diseases (mange, rabies, distemper, etc.), starvation, and even everyday life. A week in the life of a wild animal ain't no bed of roses! Next, they don't have the ability to reason.... it's not like they think, "Awe dang! I been shot!" or "How the heck am I gunna get out of this here trap?" Come on! Ever seen a bob cat "play" with it's food??? Yeah, that's pretty "humane".... We are just another one of Mother Natures tools used to manage the numbers of critters (her Renewable Resource). We all talk about ethics, longrange vs.short, gun vs. bow, sitting water/bait vs. spot & stalk.... but really does any of that matter.... I mean come on, does a Mtn. Lion stop to think if he is giving that doe he is fixin' to jump, a fair shake?? heck no! I think if we realize that deep down humans are in the predator group and that is what we do... we are the top of the food chain. Granted we have gravitated toward more pratical and "ethical" means of killing than our counterpart predators have because we were given the ability to reason.... However, this "ethical/humane" wagon that everyone is so bent on pulling around behind themselves is starting to resemble the government.... It has been WAY OVER THUNK!! We do all owe it to each other to see the pratical methods that other outdoorsman have been using for centuries, and respecting that heritage as well as the evolution of the outdoor past times that has brought us to this point. We owe it to each other to stick together! I MEAN..... Hank Jr. said it best when he sang of the Coalition to Ban All Coalitions..... "You do your thing and I'll do my thing, too!" And to the fella that mentioned a dog getting his nose snapped in a leg hold..... Sir, No disrespect intended but do you know what the odds Really are of any critter actually getting that one done??? Did you read that one one some Anti-trapping flame??? I am sure it happened one time in documented history and that makes it a good argument against trapping???? (Again no disrespect intended) Pigs are the only critters that I know of that mostly digs with their nose... all the furbearing critters pretty much use there paws. Matter o' fact we had a Yote we named "Digger" one time... he would dig up, and flipover every trap he ever came across. You might ask how I know that he actually flipped them over... cuz that should set the trap off, right? Well had one froze solid one day, dirt and all dug out and flipped over. He never got his nose caught.... but we always knew it was him cuz he was missing a toe. Never caught that dirt rascal! Had one set that he'd dig out once a week... but it was good when he wasn't around! I'm off my soap box... feel free to burn me at the stake! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Jonathan Report post Posted January 30, 2009 wasn't at all trying to argue against trapping, as I said I'm all for it. I was just trying to point out some assumptions that need validating, as you have done quite well for my own assumptions. I'm not a trapper, mainly because I can't afford to be, but I've spent time with enough guys that have been trapping since they dropped out of high school a few decades ago, and that's where I got my references for the post. Don't worry about being disrespectful, call it like you see it. I just think that a blunt statement about one method of taking game being more humane than another without any reasonable or justifiable validation is counterproductive for all of us. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite. i guess there's worse things that could happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted February 2, 2009 so trappers are all high school dropouts? where'd that come from? is that a prerequisit? the statement i made was that anything we do, trapping, hunting, fishing, etc. can be construed as unethical by someone. but the same folks will argue that abortion is ok. guess i should have just said gutshot, and left bow out of it. trapping is an outdoor activity that has been eliminated, partly because of apathy by other outdoor enthusiasts. it didn't affect hunters and anglers and the azgfd didn't want to enforce it anymore and it got voted down. shortly after it had been upheld by a decent margain. there were some big differences in the bills, but trapping still got outlawed. the first one, seems like it was 200, could have taken down hunting and fishing too, the way it was written. outdoorsmen have to stick together in everything. even in the areas that we may not completely agree with. even all united in as a strong a bunch as we can be, we're a big minority. divided within our own ranks, we ain't got a chance. scottyboy showed a little of that when he said trapping is more humane that bowhunting. i don't think he is anti bowhunting. but he may have a preference. in either pursuit, one of the objectives is for an animal to die. everything we do can be called inhumane. i don't think it is, but others dang sure do. personally, i'm all for every kind of traditional outdoor experience. i feel there is plenty of room for everyone. but we've all been split up in little groups that instead of having the same objective, using and appreciating the outdoors in whateve way we have chosen, have been divided against themselves. i think birdwatchers, hikers, wilderness survival enthusiasts, hunters, trappers, anglers, loggers, ranchers, farmers, mountian bikers, etc. should all be together in keeping the woods open for us all and i think there is room for it all. and if everyone was all together we'd be a real formicable group. divided we ain't. and i really take exception with the high school dropout deal. did i read it wrong? Lark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted February 2, 2009 wait, i left miners off the list too. Lark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Jonathan Report post Posted February 3, 2009 Yeah, I think you read it wrong, I'm laughing pretty good right now. I was totally referring to a group of guys I know, that's all. Your post was excellent, and I wholeheartedly agree with it! I wasn't trying to insinuate that trappers are dropouts, I was 100% referring to a group of goofy guys I know, that's all. I was trying to build them up as a reputable reference for trapping experience by implying that they've been doing it a LONG time. That's all. But that is hilarious, just shows how easy it is to interpret things online incorrectly (which was my bad in this case)... I was just trying to stick up for bowhunting. I'd love to do some trapping too, just can't afford it now, and I'm also not in Nevada anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
COUESAZ Report post Posted February 6, 2009 Heck 270 they did not even go past the 5th grade when you went to school ,you old timer. So we know you did not drop out. You had no choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
