Some 3A BS

[JakeDubz]

Flatlander is spot on.   Write to the Azgfd and voice your displeasure. I have first hand knowledge that the ranchers and outfitters are squeezing us out.  I was denied access on Carlisle land last year. Oh, because an outfitter is leasing it.  This is all about money.  But, who owns the game animals?

[Edge]

Nice racks..

[Flatlander]

On 11/23/2023 at 5:28 PM, Northern Pintail said:

Not sure what’s bullshit about this?   3a was otc in 2023.   

This is why it’s BS:

Prior to 2022 ranchers in 3A and 4B banded together and started complaining about all the elk on the ranch lands north of the forest boundary. The hundreds of elk in the juniper country are eating them out of house and home. There is legitimacy to this, there are lots of elk in places they hadn’t been for several years.

AZGFD responds by creating a bunch of new draw hunts starting in July and running through December in 2023. Success is pretty high. Game and fish also runs a BUNCH of pop man hunts which are also pretty successful.

Not even halfway through 2022, before the draw hunts even start, the ranchers decide everything north of the forest boundary has to be OTC. They threaten to lock their gates and deny access to ALL hunters if their demand isn’t met. Sportsmen contest this but AZGFD concedes and converts everything to OTC starting in March 2023.

Carlisle had already locked his gates due to a dispute over a AZGFD violation years before. He had at one time given A3 exclusive access, but that agreement is no longer in place. Elkins locked his gates and refuses hunters access to remove the elk. At some point Elkins sells exclusive access to Big Chino Outfitters who has a similar arrangement on a large ranch in western AZ. They advertise hunts for $8500+.

So essentially, the ranchers used their ploy to get OTC tags as a Trojan horse to create land owner tags that they can sell to the highest bidder. The have unlimited supply and the most generous seasons in the state. 

This was never about elk eating grass or drinking water. This was always about ranchers maximizing their return on the public’s resource while simultaneously flipping the public the bird.

That is why this is BS.

Please write to AZGFD and ask them to discontinue the OTC Zeniff hunt area seasons until Elkins enters into a public access agreement.

 

 

[Sky Island junkie]

Crazy how many hunters I know who have no idea how much subsidy money public lands ranchers get to then turn around and stick it to sportsman. Many of these ranchers are by far not low income! 
Google “welfare ranching in the west” 

For those who don’t know that the taxpayers have provided a way for them to play cowboy for decades and control sportsman from accessing public lands by just owning as little as 40 deeded acres. This will be an eye opener! 
Thanks for posting. Email will be sent today

[high rise hunter]

Not cool. Email fired off for what it's worth. 

[AZBIG10]

Two questions.( Thx Flatlander for the heads up)

1. How do the ranchers have the means to make any changes to the draw system tag allocations?
 

2. Can someone post a generic response? Seems it would be much more effective if we streamlined our stance and response.

[AZBIG10]

Do We need to leverage against outfitters/guides. They seem to muddy the waters a bit and we all suffer.

[Heat]

Good Catch! Total rip off!

[daryl_s]

22 hours ago, AZBIG10 said:

Two questions.( Thx Flatlander for the heads up)

1. How do the ranchers have the means to make any changes to the draw system tag allocations?
 

2. Can someone post a generic response? Seems it would be much more effective if we streamlined our stance and response.

I saw somewhere on Facebook that someone created a very well worded response for people to use when they email AZGFD about this, but I didn't get it copied before I lost track of it. If someone has it and wouldn't mind posting it here I'd be happy to join in emailing my concerns to AZGFD. I myself am not the most eloquent in these situations. 

[Coach]

It wasn't that long ago, another big outfitter got in bed with ranchers in AZ to push for landowner tags here in Arizona like they had successfully done in NM. I'm sure you all remember the USO fiasco. It didn't end, unfortunately. 

[Tony Nile]

Where does Frank Despain fit into all of this?

[Flatlander]

5 hours ago, Tony Nile said:

Where does Frank Despain fit into all of this?

When I spoke to Despain during Summer of 2022 he was the one who told me all the ranchers were going to lock their gates if AZGFD didn’t convert everything to OTC. As far as I know his land is still open to the public.

[Flatlander]

Update: Carlisle reached out and informed me that his gates have been locked for a few years. He previously had allowed A3 exclusive access but no longer has that in place. Therefore no need to include their ranch in your comments to AZGFD.

[Tony Nile]

3 hours ago, Flatlander said:

Update: Carlisle reached out and informed me that his gates have been locked for a few years. He previously had allowed A3 exclusive access but no longer has that in place. Therefore no need to include their ranch in your comments to AZGFD.

So the land Carlisle has control over is open to the public for hunting?  Wasn't that way when I had one of the special depredation tags last summer 

[Flatlander]

14 hours ago, Tony Nile said:

So the land Carlisle has control over is open to the public for hunting?  Wasn't that way when I had one of the special depredation tags last summer 

No, he locked his gates and doesn’t allow anyone on paying or otherwise.