CCW Class

[TAM]

Mike and Gino just burn a Saturday and take the class you won't regret it. You'll just have to keep open carrying that wheel gun. I can't imaging trying to comfortably conceal one of those!

 

Catclaw, thanks for your .02!

 

Ernesto, I could read your post a hundred times and it still won't change the fact that several of your comments are misguided. I'm no expert, but after taking the class I feel like I'm much more informed and that is all I was ever trying to get across by posting this topic. Using a gun for personal defense is a huge responsibility and liability. I can't imagine why anyone would be opposed to taking a voluntary training class to better educate themselves?

 

As for being judged by 12 versus carried by 6, I totally agree. However a lot of what is taught in the class could help you to avoid ever going to a jury trial, thus saving you tens of thousands in legal fees.

 

 

 

 

[josh]

One of the best things I learned when I took my first class many years ago was if you feel like you have to use deadly force make sure it is that. You never want to just leave the perp wounded. Also you should tell the first officer on the scene you want a lawyer, and do not tell anyone anything besides your lawyer. Even the police when involved in a shooting are not allowed to talk with anyone. I was involced in a shooting many years ago and it is amazing how your brain reacts to such a tramatic event. You will remember things days later that were very relavent that you could not the day of the incident. I would highly recommend taking a CCW class it is so much more than just learning about concealed carry.

[catclaw]

Ernesto- I am not advocating that we let someone rape and kill our loved ones. I'll be the first one pulling a trigger but when you go into graphics and talk about blood being all over it becomes a different matter. I guarantee you that if you make comments like that and do kill someone- you will be pulled through a wringer you have no idea even existed.

 

In these cases we do what we NEED to do and ONLY what we need to do. All this talk about shooting through walls and stuff- holy cow, are you serious? IF you shoot a bad guy that is doing harm to your family (which is OK) AND the bullet goes through and kills the neighbor- you will absolutely go to the big house if you used talk such as this and a gun that was designed to "shoot through walls."

 

There are 4 degrees of homicide. The first is just that - first degree murder. It suggests premeditation intentional killing on purpose. The next is 2nd degree. To be guilty of this you have to take actions that knowingly would result in someones death- like driving your car at high speed onto a busy sidewalk.

 

The third and most common is manslaughter in which you have to recklessly cause the death of another. This is typically used in fights, car wrecks while intoxicated and other unbecoming behavior.

 

The last is negligent homicide. This requires only negligence on your part. Shooting a slug through an wall in which you can't see what's on the other side and having it go somewhere other than into the perp and STOP will be this and more- maybe even reckless. Better to use a little judgement when taking someone's life and a class like the CCW class is probably just what you need.

 

Just like defensive driving school is prescribed for chronically bad drivers. A CCW class is a good prophylactic measure for those that are entertaining the possibility of putting 38 caliber holes in someone.

 

If you decide that you want to use a 458 Winchester with solids as your home defense gun because you want to make REAL SURE they are dead is going to buy you a whole lot of grief. It is FAR better to have the County Attorney turn down any prosecution against you because you used relatively sane methods of defense than to have to defend yourself in a manslaughter trial because you overreacted.

 

This is my point.

[Chef]

As for being judged by 12 versus carried by 6, I totally agree. However a lot of what is taught in the class could help you to avoid ever going to a jury trial, thus saving you tens of thousands in legal fees.

 

I have my CCW. I am willing to use deadly force to protect myself or my family from severe injury or death. I know the stats, but don't over think things when all heck breaks loose and you are more worried about other things than controling yourself and the situation. Did they tell you how that case in Flagstaff was going? (I believe the only case where a CCW was used in the state) Just wondering what happened to the guy.

 

They also gave us the name of a lawyer that specializes in CCW and gun cases, just in case. (handy)

 

This world seems to get worse everyday, and with this economy, people do stupid things. Better to be prepared.

[TAM]

One of the best things I learned when I took my first class many years ago was if you feel like you have to use deadly force make sure it is that. You never want to just leave the perp wounded.

 

Not trying to split hairs, just clarify based on my understanding. After you shoot a bad guy and he's lying on the ground alive, bleeding, and disarmed, you do not have the right to go put a bullet in his head and finish him off. That would be murder! If you shoot a bad guy and he's still coming at you, or even lying on the ground bleeding and aiming his gun at you then keep shooting until the threat has been stopped, that is ok.

 

Josh, I think your point was to shoot to kill, not shoot to wound?

 

My instructor explained it something like this. When shooting a bad guy we don't have the right to kill him we simply have the right to stop him. If in the process of stopping him we kill him that's ok.

 

Chef, they never used the Flagstaff example in my class. Do you remember the name of the case? Also post up or PM me the name of that attorney if you've still got it.

 

Catclaw, thanks I always wondered what the difference was between all the different kinds of homicide.