Advice on cold weather states

[HorseHunter]

I grew up here but spent 20 years around Boise (elevation 2700') granted Southern Idaho along the Snake River Plain is known as the Banana belt of the NW so we got much less snow than our MT neighbors. We lived in a town of 2500 people and the locals knew everyone's business. Didn't bother me though. I coached my kids in Tee-ball and baseball and that was a great way to connect with the locals that were in a similar stage of life. My wife was born in Boise but you may be surprised how many people never leave those small towns (Boise was the "Big City").

Helena (elevation 4000') being East of the Rockies gets that polar vortex occasionally in the winters which is pretty brutal. My wife and I honeymooned across Western MT back in 1998 and a lady in Kalispell (not Helena) recounted their population boom in years prior followed by a 1996 winter with 12' of snow. She said as soon as Spring came many of those new arrivals were on the first thing smoking out of town. Helena is more flat so you won't have that same issue Kalispell had due to the way weather interacts with the mountain topography.

Once Winter thaws you have what I call mud season until it dries out. Summers can find you with air quality issues from the wildfires.  

Having always owned livestock, I had to use stock tank heaters and still broke ice with a sledge hammer. Not fun at 0 degrees as you can imagine. I really heard about it when I was out of town and the Mrs. had to do it.

You will get sick of winters the same way we get sick of summers here as others have mentioned, but seasons pass and maybe you snowmobile and ski so you can make the most of it. 

Like Idaho, the timber companies have sold off large tracts of land we used to be able to hunt to folks that lock it up and will trespass you like those Texas Oilmen the W Bros. 

You will have a leg up rolling into town with AZ plates on your rig instead of CA plates though. 

Also, you will want 4wd or if you have a Fwd car you will want to put on studded snow tires seasonally and sometimes that will not be enough if you beat the plows on the road. 

Also think about your proximity to family Parents, kids, grandkids, etc. 

If you are the hearty type and the Mrs. promises not to get home sick, I would go for it. Just don't expect the cost of living to be lower.

I still have some snow shovels I can give you if you decide to go!  

Good luck and have fun!

[Gary I]

At one point of my life, about 20 years ago, i was asking myself the same questions about where i wanted to go. I had lived my whole life in Az. 44 years of it in Payson. Had a great life there. No complaints, just wanted something different and cooler. Through a strange set of circumstances i ended up buying 20 acres in Trout Creek, Montana. I drove from Payson to my place here 41 times getting my house built. 8 years ago my wife and i decided to pull the plug and move up to the Montana place permanently. It was the best decision we ever made.  It is a great place to be. Although my first winter here had me questioning what i had done. But once i figured out how to handle the winter it really became easy. Havent had a winter like that one since. Actually the hardest thing we have had to adjust to is the length of days. Not the short days of winter, which arent all that short, but the long days of summer. It stays light until 11:00.  You can work yourself to death.  Or you can work a regular job and get off and go fishing for another 7 hours. We rarely get to bed before 11:30 in the summer.  The elk hunting here is alittle harder than it was there. Not a lot of bulls but buying a tag over the counter and getting to go every year is nice. I've managed to kill 2 5x5s in 7 years.  The deer hunting is great. Whitetail deer are everywhere. Not hard to kill a nice buck if you spend a little time at it and dont shoot any of the first 75 bucks you see.  Lots of other hunting opportunities as well, turkey, grouse, bears, wolves, etc, all over the counter tags. Fishing nothing short of spectacular. Never know what you might catch. Could be a 5 lb smallmouth or largemouth. Or it could be a 30 lb pike or a 5 lb walleye. Or anything in between. And license and tags are cheaper here. I was a little worried about the job situation up here. Although i had semi-retired from my job there, i knew i would need to work.  It seems that it is just as hard for employers to find decent workers here as it is anywhere. There are lots of work opportunities here. Cost of living is just about the same as there. Although taxes are much cheaper. Income tax is about the same, no sales tax on anything and property taxes are lower here. Before i left i bought a lifetime hunting license in Az.  Great decision. Ive drawn better tags since i left than i got when i lived there. All in all we havent regretted leaving Az not even once. It was great for me but it was time to move on. Since we moved both of our boys have followed us up. They are doing very well at making their lives here and love it almost as much as we do. Sometimes you have to throw caution to the wind and take a chance. In the long run you provably wont ever regret it. And if you do, Az will still be there. 

[yotebuster]

5 minutes ago, Gary I said:

At one point of my life, about 20 years ago, i was asking myself the same questions about where i wanted to go. I had lived my whole life in Az. 44 years of it in Payson. Had a great life there. No complaints, just wanted something different and cooler. Through a strange set of circumstances i ended up buying 20 acres in Trout Creek, Montana. I drove from Payson to my place here 41 times getting my house built. 8 years ago my wife and i decided to pull the plug and move up to the Montana place permanently. It was the best decision we ever made.  It is a great place to be. Although my first winter here had me questioning what i had done. But once i figured out how to handle the winter it really became easy. Havent had a winter like that one since. Actually the hardest thing we have had to adjust to is the length of days. Not the short days of winter, which arent all that short, but the long days of summer. It stays light until 11:00.  You can work yourself to death.  Or you can work a regular job and get off and go fishing for another 7 hours. We rarely get to bed before 11:30 in the summer.  The elk hunting here is alittle harder than it was there. Not a lot of bulls but buying a tag over the counter and getting to go every year is nice. I've managed to kill 2 5x5s in 7 years.  The deer hunting is great. Whitetail deer are everywhere. Not hard to kill a nice buck if you spend a little time at it and dont shoot any of the first 75 bucks you see.  Lots of other hunting opportunities as well, turkey, grouse, bears, wolves, etc, all over the counter tags. Fishing nothing short of spectacular. Never know what you might catch. Could be a 5 lb smallmouth or largemouth. Or it could be a 30 lb pike or a 5 lb walleye. Or anything in between. And license and tags are cheaper here. I was a little worried about the job situation up here. Although i had semi-retired from my job there, i knew i would need to work.  It seems that it is just as hard for employers to find decent workers here as it is anywhere. There are lots of work opportunities here. Cost of living is just about the same as there. Although taxes are much cheaper. Income tax is about the same, no sales tax on anything and property taxes are lower here. Before i left i bought a lifetime hunting license in Az.  Great decision. Ive drawn better tags since i left than i got when i lived there. All in all we havent regretted leaving Az not even once. It was great for me but it was time to move on. Since we moved both of our boys have followed us up. They are doing very well at making their lives here and love it almost as much as we do. Sometimes you have to throw caution to the wind and take a chance. In the long run you provably wont ever regret it. And if you do, Az will still be there. 

That’s interesting you made that move as I’ve always told people that if I won the lottery and could live in any town in the country (I’d live in the country though) I would live in Payson AZ.   When I lived in the valley I always felt like it was the best blend of decent weather, close to desert and the pines and good sized town.  Anyhow, I think I’d miss the winter too much though.  You’re totally right, when you get it figured out it’s not bad.  A heated shop and an auto start on your truck really make it easy.  I grew up on a farm and my dad wasn’t a great operator so we had no heated shop and it was miserable when things would break or a car wouldn’t start etc.  I still think I have permanent nerve damage jn my fingers from trying to fix stuff barefingered in -25 when the metal literally sticks to your fingers.  Now that I have a heated shop it’s no biggie.  Just bring it in and deal with it tomorrow in my crocs. 

[briant_az]

12 hours ago, Gary I said:

At one point of my life, about 20 years ago, i was asking myself the same questions about where i wanted to go. I had lived my whole life in Az. 44 years of it in Payson. Had a great life there. No complaints, just wanted something different and cooler. Through a strange set of circumstances i ended up buying 20 acres in Trout Creek, Montana. I drove from Payson to my place here 41 times getting my house built. 8 years ago my wife and i decided to pull the plug and move up to the Montana place permanently. It was the best decision we ever made.  It is a great place to be. Although my first winter here had me questioning what i had done. But once i figured out how to handle the winter it really became easy. Havent had a winter like that one since. Actually the hardest thing we have had to adjust to is the length of days. Not the short days of winter, which arent all that short, but the long days of summer. It stays light until 11:00.  You can work yourself to death.  Or you can work a regular job and get off and go fishing for another 7 hours. We rarely get to bed before 11:30 in the summer.  The elk hunting here is alittle harder than it was there. Not a lot of bulls but buying a tag over the counter and getting to go every year is nice. I've managed to kill 2 5x5s in 7 years.  The deer hunting is great. Whitetail deer are everywhere. Not hard to kill a nice buck if you spend a little time at it and dont shoot any of the first 75 bucks you see.  Lots of other hunting opportunities as well, turkey, grouse, bears, wolves, etc, all over the counter tags. Fishing nothing short of spectacular. Never know what you might catch. Could be a 5 lb smallmouth or largemouth. Or it could be a 30 lb pike or a 5 lb walleye. Or anything in between. And license and tags are cheaper here. I was a little worried about the job situation up here. Although i had semi-retired from my job there, i knew i would need to work.  It seems that it is just as hard for employers to find decent workers here as it is anywhere. There are lots of work opportunities here. Cost of living is just about the same as there. Although taxes are much cheaper. Income tax is about the same, no sales tax on anything and property taxes are lower here. Before i left i bought a lifetime hunting license in Az.  Great decision. Ive drawn better tags since i left than i got when i lived there. All in all we havent regretted leaving Az not even once. It was great for me but it was time to move on. Since we moved both of our boys have followed us up. They are doing very well at making their lives here and love it almost as much as we do. Sometimes you have to throw caution to the wind and take a chance. In the long run you provably wont ever regret it. And if you do, Az will still be there. 

Thank you for sharing your experience! If we end up going, I really hope I feel the same way. 
As far as hunting goes, do you find it much harder to do in the cold there vs what you hunted in here? I know I’m going to have to invest some money in some new hunting clothes once I get up there. 
Did you sell your place in Az or do you still own it? 

[briant_az]

12 hours ago, yotebuster said:

That’s interesting you made that move as I’ve always told people that if I won the lottery and could live in any town in the country (I’d live in the country though) I would live in Payson AZ.   When I lived in the valley I always felt like it was the best blend of decent weather, close to desert and the pines and good sized town.  Anyhow, I think I’d miss the winter too much though.  You’re totally right, when you get it figured out it’s not bad.  A heated shop and an auto start on your truck really make it easy.  I grew up on a farm and my dad wasn’t a great operator so we had no heated shop and it was miserable when things would break or a car wouldn’t start etc.  I still think I have permanent nerve damage jn my fingers from trying to fix stuff barefingered in -25 when the metal literally sticks to your fingers.  Now that I have a heated shop it’s no biggie.  Just bring it in and deal with it tomorrow in my crocs. 

Thank you for your insight! I really appreciate the info that you have shared. I didn’t even think about a heated shop. One of the places we are looking at doesn’t even have a garage let alone a shop to work on anything. I never even thought about how miserable it might be to have to fix something in the middle of the winter! 

[PRDATR]

19 minutes ago, briant_az said:

Thank you for your insight! I really appreciate the info that you have shared. I didn’t even think about a heated shop. One of the places we are looking at doesn’t even have a garage let alone a shop to work on anything. I never even thought about how miserable it might be to have to fix something in the middle of the winter! 

Wrenching on a car with cracked dry fingers is no fun.

[Gary I]

At one point of my life, about 20 years ago, i was asking myself the same questions about where i wanted to go. I had lived my whole life in Az. 44 years of it in Payson. Had a great life there. No complaints, just wanted something different and cooler. Through a strange set of circumstances i ended up buying 20 acres in Trout Creek, Montana. I drove from Payson to my place here 41 times getting my house built. 8 years ago my wife and i decided to pull the plug and move up to the Montana place permanently. It was the best decision we ever made.  It is a great place to be. Although my first winter here had me questioning what i had done. But once i figured out how to handle the winter it really became easy. Havent had a winter like that one since. Actually the hardest thing we have had to adjust to is the length of days. Not the short days of winter, which arent all that short, but the long days of summer. It stays light until 11:00.  You can work yourself to death.  Or you can work a regular job and get off and go fishing for another 7 hours. We rarely get to bed before 11:30 in the summer.  The elk hunting here is alittle harder than it was there. Not a lot of bulls but buying a tag over the counter and getting to go every year is nice. I've managed to kill 2 5x5s in 7 years.  The deer hunting is great. Whitetail deer are everywhere. Not hard to kill a nice buck if you spend a little time at it and dont shoot any of the first 75 bucks you see.  Lots of other hunting opportunities as well, turkey, grouse, bears, wolves, etc, all over the counter tags. Fishing nothing short of spectacular. Never know what you might catch. Could be a 5 lb smallmouth or largemouth. Or it could be a 30 lb pike or a 5 lb walleye. Or anything in between. And license and tags are cheaper here. I was a little worried about the job situation up here. Although i had semi-retired from my job there, i knew i would need to work.  It seems that it is just as hard for employers to find decent workers here as it is anywhere. There are lots of work opportunities here. Cost of living is just about the same as there. Although taxes are much cheaper. Income tax is about the same, no sales tax on anything and property taxes are lower here. Before i left i bought a lifetime hunting license in Az.  Great decision. Ive drawn better tags since i left than i got when i lived there. All in all we havent regretted leaving Az not even once. It was great for me but it was time to move on. Since we moved both of our boys have followed us up. They are doing very well at making their lives here and love it almost as much as we do. Sometimes you have to throw caution to the wind and take a chance. In the long run you provably wont ever regret it. And if you do, Az will still be there. 

[Gary I]

We sold our house there. Didnt really think i would ever move back.  

Hunting here isnt a whole lot different than there.  The general season for archery starts in early september. Its still plenty warm, much like Arizonas archery season. The general rifle season usually starts about October 20th and runs until the sunday after Thanksgiving. There is normaly a little snow by then but not real cold.  The worst winter ive seen here it didnt snow at all until December 6th. Then it got a little out of hand.  I wear most of the same hunting clothes here that i did there. Ive upgraded a few things but not much.  The biggest upgrade is hunting boots. Waterproof is crucial. Not just for wet weather but crossing streams. You will also have to stock up on hunter orange gear. Its required during the general firearms season.  Some of the coldest times ive had was sitting on a ridge glassing for Coues deer in December down there. I miss doing that. Not a lot of glassing around here so you tend to move around more.

[twistzz]

Curious of what kind of work you will be doing up there.  If it's mostly outside during the winter that might be a female dog...  Hope it all works out for you, lived outside of Chicago growing up and the winters really did suck!  Bowling alleys were fun though   

[briant_az]

5 hours ago, twistzz said:

Curious of what kind of work you will be doing up there.  If it's mostly outside during the winter that might be a female dog...  Hope it all works out for you, lived outside of Chicago growing up and the winters really did suck!  Bowling alleys were fun though   

Project manager for a small home builder. They try to always be working inside homes in the winter but sometimes things don’t always go according to plan. 

[Stray Horse]

The Valley is a hole period.  I'd leave.

[Northern Pintail]

On 8/2/2023 at 8:07 PM, yotebuster said:

Minot is the third worst place in ND behind Fargo and Grand forks.  Gotta get west if there.  There’s a line where the sun shines more and humidity is way less.  If you go an hour anmd an half east of my house and fish lake sakakawea in early March there’ll be 40” or more of ice on an average year.  If you go the same distance west and fish fort peck you’re lucky if there’s even enough ice to drive an ATV on to fish in march (12” or so usually).  Huge difference.  

The problem with going that far west is you really get out of the good bird hunting country.  Specifically ducks

[cjl2010]

On 8/5/2023 at 6:12 PM, Gary I said:

At one point of my life, about 20 years ago, i was asking myself the same questions about where i wanted to go. I had lived my whole life in Az. 44 years of it in Payson. Had a great life there. No complaints, just wanted something different and cooler. Through a strange set of circumstances i ended up buying 20 acres in Trout Creek, Montana. I drove from Payson to my place here 41 times getting my house built. 8 years ago my wife and i decided to pull the plug and move up to the Montana place permanently. It was the best decision we ever made.  It is a great place to be. Although my first winter here had me questioning what i had done. But once i figured out how to handle the winter it really became easy. Havent had a winter like that one since. Actually the hardest thing we have had to adjust to is the length of days. Not the short days of winter, which arent all that short, but the long days of summer. It stays light until 11:00.  You can work yourself to death.  Or you can work a regular job and get off and go fishing for another 7 hours. We rarely get to bed before 11:30 in the summer.  The elk hunting here is alittle harder than it was there. Not a lot of bulls but buying a tag over the counter and getting to go every year is nice. I've managed to kill 2 5x5s in 7 years.  The deer hunting is great. Whitetail deer are everywhere. Not hard to kill a nice buck if you spend a little time at it and dont shoot any of the first 75 bucks you see.  Lots of other hunting opportunities as well, turkey, grouse, bears, wolves, etc, all over the counter tags. Fishing nothing short of spectacular. Never know what you might catch. Could be a 5 lb smallmouth or largemouth. Or it could be a 30 lb pike or a 5 lb walleye. Or anything in between. And license and tags are cheaper here. I was a little worried about the job situation up here. Although i had semi-retired from my job there, i knew i would need to work.  It seems that it is just as hard for employers to find decent workers here as it is anywhere. There are lots of work opportunities here. Cost of living is just about the same as there. Although taxes are much cheaper. Income tax is about the same, no sales tax on anything and property taxes are lower here. Before i left i bought a lifetime hunting license in Az.  Great decision. Ive drawn better tags since i left than i got when i lived there. All in all we havent regretted leaving Az not even once. It was great for me but it was time to move on. Since we moved both of our boys have followed us up. They are doing very well at making their lives here and love it almost as much as we do. Sometimes you have to throw caution to the wind and take a chance. In the long run you provably wont ever regret it. And if you do, Az will still be there. 

Miss you GI. Glad it’s going well up there!

[MT_Sourdough]

I grew up on a ranch north of Butte,   Elevation makes a big difference on how hard and long your winters are.  Helena is not so bad, plus you have the Missouri and the lakes just east and northeast of Helena.  If I had a chance, I'd be back in Montana in a heart beat, although there are winter months when I am glad to be in AZ.

[yotebuster]

17 hours ago, Northern Pintail said:

The problem with going that far west is you really get out of the good bird hunting country.  Specifically ducks

The NW corner of ND is about as good as it gets these days.  I have a farm in central ND which is the traditional prairie pothole area.  While I love it, the NR pressure has changed things so much.  The birds pile up north of the border until it freezes and blow through now.  We’ve got some great land to hunt and still can struggle through October.  Our opener in September is fantastic as we raise a ton of ducks and our November freeze out is unreal; but in between is rough.