Unsuccessful hunter in 22S in 2022?

[idgaf]

1 hour ago, Chef said:

I complained about this too.  Because of quality.  Number of Class IV rams (not) in abundance in several of the units with tag increases.  I'm borderline pissed.

I thought they give one tag for every 4 class 4 rams they see on the surveys per unit?

[GreyGhost85]

1 hour ago, Chef said:

I complained about this too.  Because of quality.  Number of Class IV rams (not) in abundance in several of the units with tag increases.  I'm borderline pissed.

You have already killed a sheep, correct?

[Chef]

1 hour ago, GreyGhost85 said:

You have already killed a sheep, correct?

I have yet to draw a sheep tag in any state.

I assist on sheep hunts every year dreaming of the season I draw and have a chance at a class IV ram.

Just to add, for the past several years, we see a lot of beautiful "up and comer" rams. 

These rams have a slimmer chance of making their true potential with the added increases in tags in the SW Az units.

[Chef]

1 hour ago, idgaf said:

I thought they give one tag for every 4 class 4 rams they see on the surveys per unit?

I don't know exactly what the ratio is supposed to be.

I can understand adding an additional tag to a hunt. 

To double the number of tags in a unit and go to a split season is another story.

 

[Coues247]

2 hours ago, Chef said:

I don't know exactly what the ratio is supposed to be.

I can understand adding an additional tag to a hunt. 

To double the number of tags in a unit and go to a split season is another story.

 

Would you rather get a chance to hunt sheep (regardless of size) or die before getting the chance?

[jdown]

I know this is an undemocratic thing to say but is there another option like not allowing anyone to enter a sheep draw with less than xx points or something?  I don't know how many tags go to less than 10 or 20 point holders every year but has to be a few that might help clear out the log jam up top a bit.  I like everyone having a chance and the lottery gives that but with ultra-finite resources such as sheep, I can't believe expecting someone to only enter with 10 points would vilified too badly. Might be a start to something evil I get but just a thought

 

[grey curse]

This should ruffle some feathers.  At this point I’m sitting on 26 points and figured I have another 10-15 solid yrs of  hunting somewhat hard.  At some point I guess my grandkids (hopefully not for 10 yrs+ up to 17 yrs old =27 more points) will  be fortunate to have max points 53 points.     How else can we look at it.  

[Chef]

1 hour ago, Coues247 said:

Would you rather get a chance to hunt sheep (regardless of size) or die before getting the chance?

As our late friend Woody Holloway from Young Az used to say... "That bull is happier living on the mountain than I would be with him on my wall"

 

[CouesFanatic]

The solution for sheep is residents only and 80% of tags go to max points 20% random. That or square the points like Nevada. You want to hunt it, wait like the rest of us. 

[Coues247]

34 minutes ago, CouesFanatic said:

The solution for sheep is residents only and 80% of tags go to max points 20% random. That or square the points like Nevada. You want to hunt it, wait like the rest of us. 

Yeah except if you weren't born 40-50 years ago you'd basically not have a chance at drawing a tag in your lifetime. That would be the "solution" for those that were lucky enough to be alive and in a position to buy points from the start. Certainly wouldn't be the "solution" for the other 90% of people wanting a sheep tag.

[DUG]

I wish I would have applied for sheep more in my younger days. I hope to see a tag in my lifetime. AZ resident all my life until Oct. 2021. Looks like I made it tougher on myself. Not moving back anytime soon if ever. But I'll keep applying every year. This year is the 1st year in a few years I didn't buy bonus points and actually entered the draw. 

[CouesFanatic]

1 hour ago, Coues247 said:

Yeah except if you weren't born 40-50 years ago you'd basically not have a chance at drawing a tag in your lifetime. That would be the "solution" for those that were lucky enough to be alive and in a position to buy points from the start. Certainly wouldn't be the "solution" for the other 90% of people wanting a sheep tag.

Theres still 20% random with my idea. What's not fair is a 10 year old non resident drawing a sheep tag their first year when we have hundreds of 65+ year old native Arizonans that have been waiting 35+ years. Other states are moving to a resident only option. Prioritize residents first and those who have waited longer. Our current system doesn't change the odds much from 0 points to 32 point then odds go up a lot once you hit the max pool. My odds at 24 points are no better than my 10 year olds with 0 points, thats not right. We either need to take more people off the top of the list or square the points. A lot of us will see our Dads never get a tag after putting in their whole life, what do you think it will be like for our kids, they have no chance. 

[HighschoolHunter]

Dude complains about 10 year olds getting drawn their first year, then says his kids will never have a chance. Pick a side. I’m happy with the AZ system as it is. Everyone gets a chance and the guys that have been in it a while get a 5-10x chance vs the first timers if you actually look at the draw odds. 0 points as a resident and you have less than a 0.5% chance for almost all sheep hunts. And it’s less than .1% for nonresidents for all hunts right up until they have max points, they don’t put a dent in your draw odds. 30+ points as a resident and you have a 3-7% chance for all but the Primo salt river hunts. It’s still terrible but statistically it’s way better than the guys starting out with nothing. I’d be fine with squaring the points too, but don’t flip the 80/20 random/bonus split. Your kids odds of ever drawing a tag would virtually disappear if they did that. 

[Coues247]

1 hour ago, CouesFanatic said:

Theres still 20% random with my idea. What's not fair is a 10 year old non resident drawing a sheep tag their first year when we have hundreds of 65+ year old native Arizonans that have been waiting 35+ years. Other states are moving to a resident only option. Prioritize residents first and those who have waited longer. Our current system doesn't change the odds much from 0 points to 32 point then odds go up a lot once you hit the max pool. My odds at 24 points are no better than my 10 year olds with 0 points, thats not right. We either need to take more people off the top of the list or square the points. A lot of us will see our Dads never get a tag after putting in their whole life, what do you think it will be like for our kids, they have no chance. 

I guess I don't agree with that point of view that just because you had the ability to apply earlier than someone else you deserve a tag more than them. No matter how you cut it there will never be enough sheep tags for everyone to get one before they die. Even if you did 100% to bonus pass people are gonna die before they get a tag.

The only thing I would agree on would to have a rule in place that you need to have a minimum of 5+ points or something before you can draw. Atleast at that point you have some skin in the game and show you are dedicated to applying.

 

You also have to realize game and fish is going to want to get the most money they can. Make it to where the new comer basically has no chance at drawing and no new people will apply. Make it to where no non resident can draw and they lose thousands of dollars of revenue. 

 

The way I see it is don't plan on hunting sheep in your lifetime. Play the odds game and hope for the best. If you draw, consider yourself lucky and enjoy it. 

[DUG]

14 minutes ago, Coues247 said:

 

The way I see it is don't plan on hunting sheep in your lifetime. Play the odds game and hope for the best. If you draw, consider yourself lucky and enjoy it. 

Yep! It's either gonna happen or it's not going to happen! Just be ready when and if the time comes.