Reloading for Long Range Question

[Cambow]

I have been into shooting all my life and done a lot of reloading over the years. I'm pretty familiar with all of the little nuances to make sure I'm loading for accuracy. I am just starting to get into the long range game and I am loving it so far... but here is my question: Does a tiny difference in powder charge (less that a tenth of a grain) really make a big difference in POI at long range? I have always thrown powder with a RCBS Uniflow and it seems like everyone is metering charges with the likes of the Chargemaster units or similar powder measuring devices. 

Is this really necessary? Any thoughts on this from veteran long range shooters?

[CouesPursuit]

Test it. The answer varies by load/rifle.

[mpriest]

I’ve heard that’s why you want to find a node and try to load in the middle of it. That way if there are slight variations in powder charge, temps etc then your velocity will stay more or less consistent 

[JSR]

It depends what you call long range.

600 yards...probably not for that big of a difference in a hunting scenario.

1000 yards in a competition......probably. 

 

 

[Crazymonkey]

I'm no expert  but the more consistent  you are at powder ,brass prep and everything  the smaller  your SD  and es numbers  will get and that will   tell  you how far you can expect  to shoot  given changes in speed at distance  even small changes can cause  a miss . If you reach out to Lance Kenyon on here if he doesn't  chime in he will  better  explain  it . He was a great help to me when I started  to load for longer range .

[yotebuster]

3 hours ago, Cambow said:

I have been into shooting all my life and done a lot of reloading over the years. I'm pretty familiar with all of the little nuances to make sure I'm loading for accuracy. I am just starting to get into the long range game and I am loving it so far... but here is my question: Does a tiny difference in powder charge (less that a tenth of a grain) really make a big difference in POA at long range? I have always thrown powder with a RCBS Uniflow and it seems like everyone is metering charges with the likes of the Chargemaster units or similar powder measuring devices. 

Is this really necessary? Any thoughts on this from veteran long range shooters?

I could be wrong,  but I don’t think there’s any powder measures that go below a tenth of a grain.  If you’re throwing every charge and not trickling you are probably off by nearly a grain, especially with log powders.  To answer your question, a thrower and trickler will do the same thing as a matchmaster or similar just slower with more effort.  I would not bother to load if I wasn’t getting within a tenth of a grain.  

[oz31p]

I’d say yes and no. But neck tension with give your SD trouble long before 1/10 of a grain of powder will. 

[hunthard]

15 minutes ago, yotebuster said:

I could be wrong,  but I don’t think there’s any powder measures that go below a tenth of a grain.  If you’re throwing every charge and not trickling you are probably off by nearly a grain, especially with log powders.  To answer your question, a thrower and trickler will do the same thing as a matchmaster or similar just slower with more effort.  I would not bother to load if I wasn’t getting within a tenth of a grain.  

Autotrickler or a supetrickler with an A&D scale does. They go down to .01. They’re the Ferraris of powder measurers.

[yotebuster]

11 minutes ago, hunthard said:

Autotrickler or a supetrickler with an A&D scale does. They go down to .01. They’re the Ferraris of powder measurers.

Sweet!!  I bought a matchmaster a year ago and love it mostly for the speed it gets things done.  I feel like getting down to hundredths wouldn’t do much good with most of the log powders I use. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Cambow]

4 hours ago, yotebuster said:

I could be wrong,  but I don’t think there’s any powder measures that go below a tenth of a grain.  If you’re throwing every charge and not trickling you are probably off by nearly a grain, especially with log powders.  To answer your question, a thrower and trickler will do the same thing as a matchmaster or similar just slower with more effort.  I would not bother to load if I wasn’t getting within a tenth of a grain.  

When I mentioned a tenth of a grain... I was thinking of how a charge is right on the edge and kinda teetering on the measurement. That being said... is a tenth of a grain a deal-breaker at 100 yards plus?

[Cambow]

4 hours ago, Crazymonkey said:

I'm no expert  but the more consistent  you are at powder ,brass prep and everything  the smaller  your SD  and es numbers  will get and that will   tell  you how far you can expect  to shoot  given changes in speed at distance  even small changes can cause  a miss . If you reach out to Lance Kenyon on here if he doesn't  chime in he will  better  explain  it . He was a great help to me when I started  to load for longer range .

I'd love to get on a phone call some day with someone who really know the ins and outs of the long range game.

[Cambow]

5 hours ago, Crazymonkey said:

I'm no expert  but the more consistent  you are at powder ,brass prep and everything  the smaller  your SD  and es numbers  will get and that will   tell  you how far you can expect  to shoot  given changes in speed at distance  even small changes can cause  a miss . If you reach out to Lance Kenyon on here if he doesn't  chime in he will  better  explain  it . He was a great help to me when I started  to load for longer range .

I'd love to get on a call some day with someone who really knows their stuff. I have a ton of questions

[Cambow]

Sorry for the double post... I can't seem to delete one of them...

[CouesPursuit]

1 hour ago, Cambow said:

When I mentioned a tenth of a grain... I was thinking of how a charge is right on the edge and kinda teetering on the measurement. That being said... is a tenth of a grain a deal-breaker at 100 yards plus?

It won't with a good load, rifle and shooter. The center of the charge weight node and low SD tested on a chrono makes the teetering irrelevant if you're consistent. 

[L Cazador]

I shot competition long range for many years and still shoot short range competition. I use a single kernel tuned beam scale and a FX120 digital scale to verify weights. For 600-1000yard competition I weigh every charge. For short range I use a Neil Jones powder measure and drop my charges. For long range yes a tenth of grain can mean the difference between shooting a 2 inch group or a 5 inch group. I've found that using the correct powder for that rifle can make a huge difference on great extreme spreads. Seating depth and the correct bullet seated at a depth that will produce great ES and great groups also impact accuracy and point of impact, by the way what is POA? With all that said I also sort bullets by weight and base to ogive. My advice is leave nothing on the table! Check out Eric Cortina's video on You Tube on this subject. To go with all this you need to be a good wind reader as well. No easy task. As an aside I use only custom made bullets for competition.