Pistol brace ruling

[n2horns]

I sure hope that the lawsuits and such get the pistol brace crap the ATF has Fdup with them being the end all rulers.  They can at will decide whether your ar is or not, judgement call by them, thats messed up.

 

[dsotm]

NFA is unconstitutional. 

 

Abolish the ATF.

[Big Tub]

A friend sent me this.  BAD stuff for AZ.  If you register your braced pistol to bring it into compliance with Federal Law, you may be in NONCOMPLIANCE to AZ law.
 

 

[ctafoya]

Not sure how you would not be in compliance with AZ. SBR's are legal to own here. 

That being said, I wouldn't take part in the amnesty scam they have going on. Admitting guilt for something that was not not previously illegal seems fishy. 

If I did own any pistols with a brace I would go back to the goofy pistol buffer tube and submit the paperwork the old way and pay the $200. I don't think it will come to that. They already shot down Trumps bump stock ban. This won't fly either. 

[HuntHarder]

Looks like a fear mongering video imo.  

[Big Tub]

1 hour ago, ctafoya said:

Not sure how you would not be in compliance with AZ. SBR's are legal to own here. 

That being said, I wouldn't take part in the amnesty scam they have going on. Admitting guilt for something that was not not previously illegal seems fishy. 

If I did own any pistols with a brace I would go back to the goofy pistol buffer tube and submit the paperwork the old way and pay the $200. I don't think it will come to that. They already shot down Trumps bump stock ban. This won't fly either. 

The SBR is only allowed if you have the NFA registration and tax stamp.  Without that, they are illegal.  For previous SBRs, you had to have that in place before you bought or built the SBR.  For the braced pistols,iIf you put in for the stamp, the Feds will supposedly cut you slack till they approve (or deny) you -- which may be months/years.  For Arizona, now that you have put in for that stamp and waiver for the $200, you have admitted you have that "illegal SBR" and relying on the good graces of the local/state law enforcement to ignore the state laws?  Did you see which governor was elected? You are absolutely correct that this is all fishy and it really is starting to reek.  

 

Read the laws themselves and see if you think this is just fear mongering.  Potentially, making people that own 40 million of these braced pistols felons by reversing a previous interpretation should concern everyone, and not just those that own these braced pistols.  And thinking that the courts will fix this by the end of the 120 "Grace Period" may be even more naive.  

[5guyshunting]

Is the Velcro arm brace included or is it just the shouldered brace?

[Curtis Reed]

41 minutes ago, Big Tub said:

For Arizona, now that you have put in for that stamp and waiver for the $200, you have admitted you have that "illegal SBR" and relying on the good graces of the local/state law enforcement to ignore the state laws?

Not exactly. You can own an AR15 (or any other firearm) with < 16” barrel. It just can’t have a stock or front foregrip. Owning a AR with less than 16” barrel and just a buffer tube is 100% legal. You aren’t admitting you own an illegal SBR. ATF would never know if there was ever a brace on it or not and would be impossible to prove.

Not every AR pistol, PCC, etc in America has an Sig brace on it.  

Theoretically, you could apply for a Form 1 tax free “SBR” owning one of these without ever owning a brace:

When you take photos of the pistol and upload during application, remove the brace.

 

The lawyer on the video has too many blanket statements and says everyone who owns an AR pistol with a brace on it is now in possession of an illegal SBR. No, not if they take 90 seconds and remove the brace. 

[Curtis Reed]

6 minutes ago, 5guyshunting said:

Is the Velcro arm brace included or is it just the shouldered brace?

All of them. Everything. If it looks anything that resembles a stock, it’s now a stock. 

[CatfishKev]

16 minutes ago, Curtis Reed said:

Not exactly. You can own an AR15 (or any other firearm) with < 16” barrel. It just can’t have a stock or front foregrip. Owning a AR with less than 16” barrel and just a buffer tube is 100% legal. You aren’t admitting you own an illegal SBR. ATF would never know if there was ever a brace on it or not and would be impossible to prove.

Not every AR pistol, PCC, etc in America has an Sig brace on it.  

Theoretically, you could apply for a Form 1 tax free “SBR” owning one of these without ever owning a brace:

When you take photos of the pistol and upload during application, remove the brace.

 

So with less then a 16" barrel you are legal as long as there is no brace or foregrip?

[Curtis Reed]

20 minutes ago, CatfishKev said:

So with less then a 16" barrel you are legal as long as there is no brace or foregrip?

Yes, always has been.  If it was purchased and listed on the 4473 as either a “receiver” or “pistol”.

Once a “rifle”, always a rifle. I know it’s confusing. 

Example: you bought a stripped lower and on the 4473, it’s listed as a receiver.  You add a 11.5” upper (no foregrip) and only have the buffer tube…. that’s legal

If you bought a factory 16” BCM AR15 (4473 will say “rifle”) and put a 11.5” upper on it and removed the stock, leaving only the tube, that is “technically” illegal. 

Im not a lawyer, but 20 years LE.  If I had a AR pistol with a brace, I would remove brace, and do the tax exempt Form 1. I’m as skeptical as anyone but I don’t think they are trying to trick millions of people into criminal charges. I think it’s a mess and they are trying to get all the braces gone, and all the current braced pistols legal, so they can stop the braced pistol fiasco. 

I own 2 SBR’s and I did the tax stamp thing even when braces were an option. I knew those things would be shut down sooner or later. 👍

AR on top: bought as complete factory BCM rifle.  Cannot be made into a pistol, but could be SBR’ed like any other AR rifle or pistol.

AR middle: Built from stripped lower  I SBR’ed it with a Form 1 $200 tax.

Scorpion on bottom: bought as a pistol and SBR’ed with Form 1 $200 tax  

hope that makes sense. 

[Crazymonkey]

Twenty some years ago when I lived in California they did the same crap with the assault weapon registration. Had to go to the police station and get fingerprints and submit to the doj to register your guns. Then they were using the register to get guns from the owners or make them sell them outa state . Don't admit to anything and don't register anything . Lucky I moved to a free state and my guns and suppressor  are legal here. My dad is still  in CA  and refuses  to comply  with  the b.s. and has several  guns deemed  not legal for the state.

 

 

[CatfishKev]

@Crazymonkey delete that!

13 minutes ago, Curtis Reed said:

Yes, always has been.  If it was purchased and listed on the 4473 as either a “receiver” or “pistol”.

Once a “rifle”, always a rifle. I know it’s confusing. 

Example: you bought a stripped lower and on the 4473, it’s listed as a receiver.  You add a 11.5” upper (no foregrip) and only have the buffer tube…. that’s legal

If you bought a factory 16” BCM AR15 (4473 will say “rifle”) and put a 11.5” upper on it and removed the stock, leaving only the tube, that is “technically” illegal. 

Im not a lawyer, but 20 years LE.  If I had a AR pistol with a brace, I would remove brace, and grab do the tax exempt Form 1. I’m as skeptical as anyone but I don’t think they are trying to trick millions of people into criminal charges. I think it’s a mess and they are trying to get all the braces gone, and all the current braced pistols legal, so they can stop the braced pistol fiasco. 

I own 2 SBR’s and I did the tax stamp thing even when braces were an option. I knew those things would be shut down sooner or later. 👍

 

I have to wonder what if you bought a lower from someone else? I gotta look at mine and see if its one I bought new or from a buddy.  Not surprised on the brace ruling honestly but these rules sure are ambiguous.

[Curtis Reed]

Just now, CatfishKev said:

@Crazymonkey delete that!

I have to wonder what if you bought a lower from someone else? I gotta look at mine and see if its one I bought new or from a buddy.  Not surprised on the brace ruling honestly but these rules sure are ambiguous.

Yeah the laws are ridiculous.  Good question about the lower. 

[Curtis Reed]

Also, the lawyer in that video gave bad info about AZ laws. All NFA firearms are legal in AZ if they comply with Federal laws. 

AZ law (13-3101.A8a) says a Prohibited Weapon includes:

(iv) A rifle with a barrel length of less than sixteen inches, or shotgun with a barrel length of less than eighteen inches, or any firearm that is made from a rifle or shotgun and that, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

However 13-3101.B also states:

B. The items set forth in subsection A, paragraph 8, subdivision (a), items (i), (ii), (iii) and (iv) of this section does not include any firearms or devices that are possessed, manufactured or transferred in compliance with federal law.