Westy Report post Posted November 15, 2008 Recall the uproar when the early hunts were created/modified and increased early permits were created and late permits decreased? Most of this was justified by the department as providing "more hunting opportunities". With all the bucks seemingly going down in the early hunts, has their position been validated? How many of you would go back to the "old" hunt regime? Is the harvest too great? Just pondering some questions and would like to stir some discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Rabbit Report post Posted November 15, 2008 Given the number of bucks (few) and does our group glassed in 36C, and the number of large bucks seen (actually not seen), it does not speak well to the buck:doe ratio and buck age class. True, we saw many does with single fawns and twins. There is hope for the future in terms of maintaining the population. But looking at the number of permits, success ratios and square miles of the unit, my opinion is still that there are too many permits/harvest to sustain any quality hunting and having a good buck population. The position will be validated if the number of new, first-time, hunters is increased for both the youth and adults. There are adults who do not begin hunting till they are out school and in a career (me being one of them). So recruitment must also target adults along with the youth. RR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstcoueswas80 Report post Posted November 15, 2008 Like Doug, on the past hunt I was on I saw more does and fawns than I should have. In 5 days, we saw approximately 85-90 deer. Only 6 of those were bucks. 3 of the bucks were 82-88" (guess) and the other three were (1) small 3x3 and (2) Forks. Seems like there could be less hunters to let more bucks grow up a little. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SunDevil Report post Posted November 15, 2008 Westy - please keep in mind that the previous 2 posters are Leicars. this may have something to do with the number of bucks they saw (or rather didn't see) on their hunts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snapshot Report post Posted November 15, 2008 Westy - please keep in mind that the previous 2 posters are Leicars. this may have something to do with the number of bucks they saw (or rather didn't see) on their hunts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AzHunt Report post Posted November 15, 2008 I have to agree with RedRabbit and Firstcoueswas80. I saw a ton of deer, in fact, I stopped counting, but we saw 3 bucks, none of which were big enough (in our opinion) to harvest. Not to say there weren't bigger ones that we didn't see, but I can say there is a big difference in the last couple of years. We hunt the same area year after year and there does seem to be a difference. Oh, and I use Swarovski. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Westy Report post Posted November 15, 2008 Given the number of bucks (few) and does our group glassed in 36C, and the number of large bucks seen (actually not seen), it does not speak well to the buck:doe ratio and buck age class. True, we saw many does with single fawns and twins. There is hope for the future in terms of maintaining the population. But looking at the number of permits, success ratios and square miles of the unit, my opinion is still that there are too many permits/harvest to sustain any quality hunting and having a good buck population. The position will be validated if the number of new, first-time, hunters is increased for both the youth and adults. There are adults who do not begin hunting till they are out school and in a career (me being one of them). So recruitment must also target adults along with the youth. RR Interesting info, I guess I was focusing on the fact that some of us have observed more bachelor groups in the earlier hunts, and therefore a greater buck/doe ratio has been observed since the hunt structure was changed. This doesn't mean that a greater buck/doe ratio exists, of course, just that the timing of the hunt(s) might coincide with a greater degree of buck grouping. Will this lead to more 2 and 3 buck simultaneous harvests? Westy - please keep in mind that the previous 2 posters are Leicars. this may have something to do with the number of bucks they saw (or rather didn't see) on their hunts. That makes all the difference! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Rabbit Report post Posted November 15, 2008 Westy - please keep in mind that the previous 2 posters are Leicars. this may have something to do with the number of bucks they saw (or rather didn't see) on their hunts. That must be the valid reason why I saw so few bucks . Heck, Tyler/elkhunter sat down and in 30 seconds he had bucks spotted, and he uses Swarovski. Gotta get me sum (as Toby Keith says). Watch the classifieds for a good deal on Duovids Doug Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GameHauler Report post Posted November 15, 2008 Westy - please keep in mind that the previous 2 posters are Leicars. this may have something to do with the number of bucks they saw (or rather didn't see) on their hunts. That must be the valid reason why I saw so few bucks . Heck, Tyler/elkhunter sat down and in 30 seconds he had bucks spotted, and he uses Swarovski. Gotta get me sum (as Toby Keith says). Watch the classifieds for a good deal on Duovids Doug Next thing we know you will be testing VLD's also Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SunDevil Report post Posted November 16, 2008 it will be a long, long time before the G&F gets any vindication on this site. they manage for opportunity. most of us on here would prefer to see a little more quality but the dept did their survey and asked their questions in a certain way to solicit certain responses and now they are able to site their survey as scripture and that 60% of the respondants want to have the opportunity to hunt something. it has been my observation that some high quality bucks were taken on the archery hunt, the first junior hunt and the first general rifle hunt. yes there were some exceptions to this on the second general rifle hunt but if you do a little research you will see that most of these second season bucks were taken way back in (1 - 2 hour hikes in) away from hunting pressure from the previous hunts. if someone wants true quality in AZ for coues, I think you will find that it will take some good ole shoe leather or hunting in the heat (archery - oct). oh - and a good pair of swarovski binoculars Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstcoueswas80 Report post Posted November 16, 2008 Hey Chris, how did you do on your hunt? How did the Swaros fair for you? Havent seen any success pictures yet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azcouesandelk Report post Posted November 16, 2008 Well I believe that it will stay as is for several more years. As far as buck numbers we were seeing around 8 bucks per day and around 20 does per day. Also we were seeing 2 or more mature bucks per day. And as Chris said it was over an hour back to our spot and it was all swarovski! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
