Deer,Predators,and Drought

[111]

Manamal

 

The lion track has to be fairly fresh according to the guide. We found a huge lion track in the snow up on the north rim a few weeks ago but the guide said it was a day old so his dogs couldn't chase it. I'm guessing he wants the lion track a day or less old and he prefers the track in the snow. Any info is good, just let me know. We'll keep looking.

[wetmule]

CHD, Manamal, 270 etc.

Sometimes I think the only people that don't know that predators are a huge problem are some of the higher ups in the G & F. Even with the Three Bar study I think there are G & F personnell that are'nt buying it, they have a hard time believing what the biologists are telling them. It's a very frustrating situation for those of us that want to see our herds grow and I'm sure it's frustrating for the biologists whose efforts and hard work falls on deaf ears within the Dept.

Regarding the AZ Strip : We at the AZ Deer Association have paid for aerial gunning of coyotes several times in recent years trying to knock back the coyotes at the most critical times before the fawns drop etc. We have also hired one of the best lion hunters in the state (Jim Bedlion) and have paid him to hunt cats the last five years on the AZ Strip. The problem with the Strip is not too many of the cat hunters wants to go that far to hunt cats, it's way easier for them to hunt the Kaibab or the rim or the desert mountains etc. That and the fact that hunting cats is a very difficult undertaking on the Strip. According to Jim those cats travel incredible distances from one end of the unit to the other and back again. Jim has spent two to three weeks every winter for the past five years for us (ADA) hunting cats up there. He does this on foot and has tracked those cats to heck and back, he is one tough hombre. He has done this for us for basically his expenses. If any of you know Jim please thank him, he has done an incredible job for us and has taken over twenty cats in the last five years. I'm not exactly sure of the numbers I'd have to check my records but i think the first year he took I think 7 lions, then 5 or 6, then 4 or 5, then I think 4, and this last year I think he took 3 lions up there. He gave us a report several months ago at one of our board meetings and said he thinks the cats up on the Strip at least for now are pretty well in check. Good news for us and the deer up there.

I would second CHD's reccomendation of joining the ADA's efforts by joining, and if at all possible becoming active and involved. There are lots of people that post on here that could and would definitely make a difference and by the way we need your help. Later

[DesertBull]

A couple of questions, and please do not take this as the wrong way. I am just asking out of ignorance.

 

1. We all know the strip is a great place to hunt big deer, but why concentrate your resources there, where 99% of the people will never get a chance to hunt?

 

2. Isn't there lion problems in other parts of the state, like Tonto Basin, The Catalinas, Blue River etc?

 

3. Seems you could turn the problem of getting people to hunt cats into a good way to raise funds. Instead of , or better yet, in addition to, paying Mr. Bedlion to hunt. Pay the hound guys up front, then raffle off some lion hunts. A lot of us would love to kill a lion, but don't really have the $2500 to hire a guide and the ADA doesn't get stuck with the whole bill for Predator Control. Even if you don't turn a profit, your still getting a break on overall cost that you are footing the bill for now.

[wetmule]

Desert Bull,

The ADA started out as the AZ Mule Deer Assoc. We only recently changed our name to try to encourage participation and increase our membership voices within the hunting community. Carp hunters, Coues hunters - we are all deer hunters that love deer- both coues and mule deer, and they all need our help.

Even though we have spent alot of money on Coues Deer projects throughout the state, when this particular project started our organization was the Arizona Mule Deer Assoc. The strip is an area that had a need for some help in this area and we wanted to help so that is what we did. Second, and this is important, very few if any lion hunters hunt the strip, it's too tough and too far etc. Some lion hunters want to wait till they see a 15 minute old track in fresh snow before they get out of their heated cab to dump the dogs out as was said in an earlier post. We had a lion hunter in Jim Bedlion that likes and knows the Strip and more importantly was willing to go there and do some tough work. There may well be a lion problem in other parts of the state like tonto, Catalinas etc. but these areas get hunted by numerous houndsmen on a frequent basis, unlike the strip. Your point # 3. is a good one and a good idea, why don't you come to a board meeting and present it to the board sometime.

[wetmule]

DB,

Just wanted to point out that these resources we concentrated up there were a small fraction of total money spent by ADA and money well spent.

CHD, hope you're over your life hatin pertussssisisis bacterial viral fungal life threatening disease (jock itch) just kidin. Sorry you missed out on yer coues hunt, with your luck in the draw you'll pull a strip tag again this year and won't have to worry about coues in 05, if you do, I'm there. Give me a shout. Later

[Manamal]

wetmule,

 

Thanks for the info, its good to hear that someone is taking care of the lion problem up there. I'm a member of the ADA but have never been to a meeting or participated in any projects. I would really like to get more involved. What can I do as a member to help out? Is there a meeting coming up?

 

DB,

 

I think a lion raffle is a great idea, it would definately get some more people out there killing these lions. Are you going to go to the next meeting and presenting your idea to the board?

 

111,

 

Still looking, spent the weekend in 37b and didn't see any tracks. I'll be up in 22 this coming weekend , I'll let you know if I find any.

[wetmule]

Manamal,

The ADA Board meetings are always the third wednesday of every month here in the PHX area. Sometimes the location changes but they are usually @ 6:30 P.M.

The next one is on the 19th I believe. Amanda is a board member and Allen is a past board member that is very active and involved, possibly a few others that post on here as well. Any help would be much appreciated, it would probably be a good idea to go to a meeting to see how things work and determine where your interests lie etc. Anyone is welcome you just need to let someone know you are coming. To do that contact Mark or Tracey. Mark's e-mail is markbool@qwest.net and Tracey's e-mail is assnmgmt1@cox.net they would both be able to direct you to the upcoming meeting info. with time, location etc. Thanks for your interest, hope to see you there.

[DesertBull]

Wetmule,

 

Thanks for the info. I did not intend to infer that more money should be spent in WT habitat, I was pointing out that lions are a problem in many areas. I am 100% behind the efforts to preserve the Strip deer and gene pool and realize that funds must be spent where they have the most impact.

 

One other question. Does Mr. Bedlion get a special permit from the G&F to kill all these cats in one year or does he have to take a valid tag holder on each hunt? Just curious.

 

I'm not much of a public speaker ( I always skipped that day of class!) Plus, there is no way I could make a midweek meeting at 6:30.

 

If someone wants to run with the raffle idea, please do. I'll be sure to buy some tickets if it gets rolling.

[CHD]

Hey Wetmule,

 

Still owe you some pics of them '04 13A bucks, don't I? See that buck that Kip got his client (the Doc) in Tuweep? What a TOAD!!! What a magnificent Strip trophy muley! Some other toads were taken while driving down the main roads between hunting areas. You just won't believe it. Why doesn't this ever happen to guys like you and me? I need to get some pics scanned and then they are on their way.

 

Just printed out the ADA application and am ready to send my $$$, Wetmule, but found something really disturbing on the ADA website. This thing may be the downfall of the ADA. This thing really upsets me, and I just don't know if I wanna contribute my hard-earned $$$ to ADA now. Under 'Discussion Forums', it is suggested that the viewer visit MM.com. This is incredible, irritating, unbearable, unbelievable nonsense, as anyone with half-a-brain knows that that forum is a disaster zone full of phony, envious, pathetic, clueless wannabe's and grown men with a bad case of LWS. Mainly when it comes to AZ muleys (or any muleys, for that matter). Any deer hunter with intelligence knows very well that this forum is the best in AZ for Coues deer or even muleys with a few pigs and bears and elk thrown in. This is indeed the "primo" AZ deer forum and website, and is also getting better for muleys and other AZ species.

 

I'm sending ADA my money, Wetmule, but if'n the ADA doesn't modify their policy regarding MM.com, I dunno if I can give again. I might just spend my days pissed off and stewing about the stuff on MM.com instead of traveling to the Strip to help install a water encatchment.

 

Think about it.

[wetmule]

D.B.,

You don't have to be a public speaker to be involved in the ADA or to attend a board metting, I'm evidence of that for sure. Also, I believe Mr. Bedlion has tagholders with him.

CHD,

Glad to see you're still alive & kickin. I saw a couple pics from that 13A hunt including the monster that Kip found for the doc., but I have'nt seen them all yet. I know Brady's hunter took a monster as well as Alvey's hunter and there may be one I left out. So send them on. I still owe you a pic of the Strip buck that we killed after Kip poisoned me and I owe you a few polar bear pics, but as you know I'm a film guy so you have to wait for the mail to arrive. As far as the ADA website having a link to MM don't know nuthin bout it, you'll have to take that up with Amanda, she is our website creator, administrator guru mistress. I do agree with you though, this site and forum and it's members is beyond compare and certainly not with MM.

Thanks for your support, later.

[CouesWhitetail]

CHD,

 

Glad to hear you are joining the ADA. And anyone else who wants to join or attend a meeting, just go to the ADA website for more info.

 

As far as linking to MM.com.....it was agreed by the board to link to both. We felt that it would be better to link to active forums rather than trying to create another forum. You don't have to join the MM forum to join and help the ADA. The board felt that those who wanted to talk about Muleys would be more interested in going to MonsterMulies.com forum and those who wanted to talk about Coues Deer would come here. Remember Allen Taylor, who is very active with the ADA is the moderator over at MM.com. You can talk to him about content issues on that forum.

 

Chris, do you have any other forum you would suggest for muley hunters to go to? If you do, let me know.

 

Amanda

[kwp]

270

where did you hear about this quota in 27 and 28? is that true or are you yankin our chains? I've been wanting to get back up to 27 to look for a lion and this would be a little more incentive.

[CHD]

Actually, I was just bein' ornery (didn't wanna disappoint you all) and pickin' on Wetmule a little with my usual dark sarcasm. However......... that MM forum (the muley portion, not the Coues portion) is every bit as bad as I described plus worse. Don't wanna talk to anyone there about my concerns 'cause I'm banned from it anyway from 2 years ago for calling it like it is and exposing the domineering regulars for what they are and good flippin' riddance. My buddies and I joke about it as the biggest bunch of wannabe's in muley hunting. It's kind of the living example of 'patheticness' on the internet. Hard to believe a business owner would let his business go so far downhill right in front of everybody.

 

I'm a film guy too K, and don't have a scanner, so give me some time. I have a pic of Alvey's hunter's buck plus Brady's. No wonder Kip wanted to road hunt after those were taken. The Doc's buck was taken a mile from where I took mine and where the Mohave Monster + Leuderman's 'Iffer' buck were taken in 1992 & 1993. Remember Carl's bucks? What a great big buck area in just a few sections of land. Water + feed + plenty of does living there + everybody driving past to get to someplace better = Big Buck City! Also K, I have drawn more AZ tags than you know about over the last decade, and I will get my house burned down if I say which ones on this forum! I have drawn more quality tags than most residents. I thought my luck would end 5 years ago, but they just keep pulling my name out of the hat. Plus, it helps to know the governor (LOL, just kidding!).

 

This is a super duper website here, Amanda. Not just the forum, but all the rest. The general info about Coues deer, the constantly updated pics (with good detail), the Coues books and vids, have helped me a great deal. Prior to this site and the How to....Coues book, I had little to draw from for learning about these great deer. A decade ago when I started hunting Coues deer and lived in Wyoming, I had nothing and nobody to learn from. Amanda, you strike me as the type that puts a lot of effort into things, and it shows on your website. Thanks Amanda, for a great website!!!

 

I am proud to join ADA. And I don't give my $$$ to just any group or organization. After Wetmule decribed the things that ADA was doing, it was obvious that it is a great organization that I need to support (AND SO DO OTHER AZ DEER HUNTERS!). I almost feel that I am obligated to join after picking on Arizona's deer the last decade. I really appreciate you, Kevin + Amanda + Allen Taylor + all the others spending your time and expertise to help Arizona's deer and protect deer hunting in Arizona!!! Thanks a lot!!!

 

Amanda, can you explain the difference between a 'regular' membership and a 'sustaining' membership? I really wanna do more than 'regular' but am pretty tapped-out right now.

 

Amanda, there is no other muley forum that I know of that is worth linking to. Except the one that I may start......... just because I can. Wanna design it for me???

[CouesWhitetail]

CHD,

 

The sustaining membership gives you the special feeling of contributing to AZ's deer herds at a sustaining level You also get a mention in the newsletter. And we may start putting names up on the website to add more recognition to them.

 

The ADA really just breaks even with a regular membership. So when you want to contribute more money to help AZ deer herds, go with the sustaining or life membership.

 

And if you really are serious about setting up another forum you can email me about it.

 

Amanda

[CHD]

You are quite a salesperson, Amanda. I'll go with the sustaining membership just for the 'special feeling' you mentioned. I've been using Yukon Jack to get that special feeling, and really need to try somethin' else, lol. I really don't need to be mentioned anywhere, tho.