Deer,Predators,and Drought

[Manamal]

I recently read an article in Arizona Deer Times, the publication of the Arizona Deer Association. In the article Rory K. Aikens writes about a study conducted on the 3-Bar wildlife area near Roosevelt. There is a 602 acre fenced predator-proof enclosure where the study takes place. One of the people Aikens interviewed is Jim de Vos, research chief for the AZGFD. de Vos states that " Despite one of the worst droughts in the past 700-1000 years fawn survival has remained high in this predator proof enclosure". He also mentions that the deer numbers inside the enclosure are ten times higher than the surrounding country. That is a huge difference predators make on a population. I think as sportsmen and women we need to do what we can to keep these dogs and cats in check!! Unless I'm hunting big game, I try to kill every coyote I see. I would love to get a lion and have seen a few over the years but the opportunity just hasn't been right.

 

 

I don't know any lion hunters with hounds. If I did I would kill as many lions as I legally could. Eventually I will probably hire someone with dogs to help me get a lion. But untill then I still want to contribute to their demise. Are there any lion hunters on this site? When I find a fresh lion track can I give you G.P.S. coordinates so you guys can track it down and kill it?

[bowsniper]

Back in the 1920's, the ranchers killed all the predators up on the Kiabab. Then the deer population exploded. But within a few years, 90% of the deer died due to starvation. It took decades for the forage and the deer to return normal. Something to think about......

 

Bowsniper

 

PS: I don't care how may coyotes we kill, we'll never make a dent. The more we kill, the more they'll breed.

[azyoung]

Manamal, I totally agree with you. With lions and coyotes "they are all guilty" I try my best to reduce the population any chance I get. As for the drought it seems this year we are in a good winter pattern 15+ inches of snow this morning with more to come!

 

azyoung

[111]

I think all of us will shoot a coyote given the opportunity, unless your in a good area chasing a monster buck or bull. I'm trying to do my part with the preditor problem but it's tough. I think the only way to make a big dent in the population is by trapping or aireal control. Manamal I have a guided lion hunt with a guide from Dewey, and anytime I find a fresh track or he does we're on it. Some reason he's been out looking for tracks and has only found one old one in the Kaibab. With this two foot snow storm in Flagstaff he should be calling. If any of you know find a fresh track I wouldn't mind knowing. Thanks

[.270]

i read the stuff in the paper about the 3bar study. what really pissed me off is that the azgfd said they wouldn't do anything with the data because they were afraid of offending huggers. heck, anyone with any sense can tell that predators are hurting things. why did they waste the money and effort on the study if they aren't gonna use the info they gathered? there are too many lions and coyotes. there needs to be an honest effort made to reduce their numbers to match everything else. instead just the opposite seems to be the azgfd's agenda. about 20 years ago the lions got so bad on the strip that the deer population almost went to zero. i talked with a azgfd biologist who was in the process of looking for another job because he was so pissed at his bosses and their inaction on the problem. they didn't do a dang thing until the deer population got so low that the lions started starving. there were several years that there was "NO" deer hunt on the strip. this is the strip, the most famous mule deer country in the world. better than kaibab. and azgfd stood by and watched it happen. something is up in unit 27 and 28 right now too. i think the azgfd must be sorta skeered there. the new quota deal on lions in those units tells me they want somebody to get in there with hounds and get rid of some of em. the limit is one per day, per hunter, until they reach the quota. after the quota the limit goes back to one per year per hunter. a guy with hounds could have a buncha fun. he could make a pile too, if he had the clients. yeah, a guy needs to shoot every coyote and lion he sees. go buy a call and have some fun. this is the perfect time o' year to call coyotes. unless you're one o' them guys that think javelinas taste good. then i guess you'll be out trying to poke an arrow in one o' them stinkers. and the drought is bad. as soon as it quits rainin', i'm gonna see about doin' somethin' about it. Lark.

[DesertBull]

If anyone wants to get together to shoot some vermin, I'm willing. Never been varmit calling, but wanting to learn.

 

Jeff

[Apache7mm]

Yup takin care of predators when you can is always good, getting out there in them open flats and calling them in from hundreds of yards out is good hunting with the guys, i got this lil' guy this past weekend at my uncles camp, he was snooping around camp looking for a bite, he only ran about 30 yards out and stopped to look back, as soon as he seen me he bolted and i got him just as he was about to drop into the draw.

 

 

DAN

[Kaffer62]

I go out on a regular basis, varmit calling, the only good coyote is a dead coyote, there are coyotes everywhere, I called in a bobcat once, had my bow, wanted him to meet Mr Muzzy, but never got the chance, you can get a lot of year round hunting in with coyotes. Ill try to upload some pics of coyotes that have been unlucky

[Manamal]

bowsniper,

You're right, in fact a browse line as tall as a deer can reach on its hind legs can still be discerned on the Kaibab today. As part of the study a wildlife biology major from Texas Tech is trying to find out if the high density of deer within the enclosure is negatively impacting the vegitation. I don't think he had finished his study by publication time as there were no results available. However it is mentioned in the article that some of the top bioligists in the field have looked at the habitat and have not detected overuse by deer.

 

111,

It has been a few weeks since I have seen a lion track that is fresh. One question I have is how old of a track can a dog follow? I will PM you with GPS coordinates and directions to the spot next time I see a fresh track. I usually see them in 21, 22, and 37b.

 

.270,

It really bothers me that the AZGFD would sit back and watch that happen to the strip. Do they just not care, or were they putting all their money into the states elk herd? I wonder why they don't hire some predator control specialists. Is it a money issue?

 

Desert Bull,

I've had some success at calling coyotes and plan to hunt them quite a bit between deer/pig and turkey seasons. I'll let you know when I'm going.

 

Apache7MM,

Way to go man, glad to see you're doing your part!!

[JVS]

I think the critical time to thin the coyotes is May and June, when the does are dropping the fawns. We have all heard if the population of coyotes goes down, they "instinctively" raise the number of pups in the litter. Well, they can't bounce back in just a month or two. If the coyotes are decimated in May and June, there are not as many to take the fawns. Of course the adult deer are taken by coyotes as well, but not like the fawns are taken. May and June should be designated as national whack a coyote months. FYI- Pelt prices are up (near $30).

[DesertBull]

Is there anyone in AZ that buys pelts or do you have to ship them somewhere?

[25-06]

I plan on shooting each and every yote I see, and is far as predator control goes, I have decided to leave my bow and archery deer tag at home, so I can use my rifle and go for lion until next deer season.

[bowhunter4life]

if looken for a great lion hunter try treed guide service.I've had awsome success with him @ he will hunt you a$$ off.his web site is www.treedguideservice.com i think he caught close to 15 lions last year. he is also linked off desertchristianarchers.org mike

[JVS]

DESERTBULL,

There are fur traders that come around to different parts every so often. I have heard of them coming to St. Johns, and Globe...I'm sure they make stops in other locations. Anybody have some insight? Give it a google search. If you can't find a furtrader that comes around here, you can save your pelts and ship them off. I plan on saving mine and giving them to a friend to take to a furtrader that comes to st johns. Coyotes are going for ~30, and bobcats for well over 100, more like 150-200 if its a good one. I missed a bobcat a while back, and I'm still kickin my ars over it.

[CHD]

Much as I hate to admit it, I............I...........I.............I...........agree with Lark on this one.

 

I whack many coyotes a year. I even ran one down in my Jeep in September while coming down the hill from scouting elk in the Bookcliffs. I almost totaled my Jeep and killed myself on the steep, hair-pin-curve hillside, but I got the dirty $%*&. Next weekend I ran another in the same exact spot, but he was a little smarter and quicker and survived, unfortunately. My fault for valuing me and my Jeep over a fawn-killer. Whacked a thick-furred one a month ago with my 7mm WBY Mag.

 

The Strip is THE BEST trophy muley place on this planet. But it could be better given some attention. The gene pool for big antlers on the Strip is by far the best on the planet, IMO. Find a 5.5+ year old buck, and he is a TOAD. The feed is terrific there....................but the deer numbers just aren't there like they could be. I have pics of 5 whoppers killed in '04 in 13A. I have buddies who guide there, and I keep close tabs on it. What a goddang waste of a terrific muley area to let the predators run rampant. We deer hunters should be pushing for more tanks to be built and predators controlled in this WORLD CLASS muley habitat. The AZ Deer Association believes this too, and I am joining. You all should too.