Its Time To Change the Arizona Bonus Point System

[Huntandfish]

The problem is to many people not enough tags no system will fix that. Nothing in life is fair.

[Sky Island junkie]

4 hours ago, geoffsl said:

Yeah maybe there is a difference when it comes to expectation. . .But arent we required to purchase a license? and don't we spend money on the app fees. . .and those add up. and if you are the guy I saw this morning that has 33 points for big horn and still didn't draw, knowing that someone drew with less points. . .that hurts.  and we are all getting there. ..My boys (now in their mid to late 20's) have been on one elk hunt of their own. . .and only two of the three have ever hunted antelope, we have 3 deer hunts over the same period of time between the 4 of us.  So yes, I am bitching. . .so we can agree to disagree, I would like to see the system changed to be more equitable.    

Equitable? You’re in the wrong state to talk about equal rights with regards to the hunt Lottery! And 2 of the 3 of your boys in their  twenties have drawn Az Antelope? That’s pretty great! IMO. You’re not drawing deer for obvious reasons. If you want to hunt more often put in to get drawn or move to the Midwest!  Sorry your V hurts!                  

 

[NOTAGS]

5 hours ago, geoffsl said:

You are hilarious.  So funny.  I imagine you are just as o.k. with going to a restaurant, ordering your food and watch plate after plate of food getting delivered to people who ordered an hour after you. . .or so jovial and fun when you are at the grocery store with a cart full of items as one by one people from back of the line get rung up ahead of you. . .but youre right I am such butt for thinking that first come first serve should be a thing.  

No. You’re not a butt, just oblivious  and acting entitled by refusing to accept the terms of the “ random draw “ process you willingly apply through, and then get wadded up when you don’t draw.  I’m guessing you don’t have a real job as you’ve been posting for almost 12:hours straight

[SunDevil]

7 hours ago, geoffsl said:

….Some of us, enjoy the quality of hunt, some don't I get it……

FYI. You lost me after making this statement. There are quality animals in almost every unit. Some units it is just harder to find them in. Many would say hunting with your kids is a quality hunt. You can and should be able to have a quality hunt every year (or every other year). If not then you are putting in for the wrong units. It sounds like you understand the process and are willing to go years, voluntarily, without enjoying those quality hunts.  

[millerpe1327]

If preference point systems are the way to go why are Wyoming and Colorado the only ones that use it? And why is WY looking at changing to a weighted bonus point system to make it more fair according to them.

I refuse to acknowledge a place on the west coast that uses preference points as well. That alone should be enough reasons to not use it haha.

 

 

[Hoytman]

Op is whining about unfair as he and his kids have drawn tags that would be once in a lifetime tags with his proposed change just based on the pure # of people applying. With a crazy change like that my daughter would never really have a chance to draw a tag based on the number of animals and people applying. 

[stanley]

9 hours ago, geoffsl said:

Obviously, you didn’t read any of my post…jumped to a lot of conclusions about who I am and what I do…I am like everyone of you…
simply made one point….and every talks about how dumb I am for putting in for a hard to draw units…and that I must not be a good hunter and just a whiner…really don’t give a crap what you think.

its a simple question and don’t try explaining to me how the draw system works…I promise I have read its studied it using the departments own published odds charts etc…so stop trying to prove you know more. And telling me how I should put in for different hunts…

my belief with out bastardizing it;

yes or no? Do people get tags before the first person in line?  Just answer that question…

of course, as we all well know…the answer is yes  

Now here is the part that makes some of you go crazy…….in my opinion which I have more than well earned the right to voice no more or less than any of you…

I don’t think that is right.  That’s it…there is no more to it.  
 

there may or may not be a better way to do it  but bottom line that is how I feel.  And I guess I am alone in that thought..it doesn’t make me a whiner  it doesn’t make me a snowflake  

I just believe first come first serve….

 

 

 

You continue to make statements (or in this case, ask a question) that make no sense and have no relevance to the topic.

"Do people get tags before the first person in line?"    There is not a line!  It's a random draw!!!  So if I suppose the answer to your question would be NO, people do not get tags before the first person in line because there is no line!

Then you make a statement that you don't think that is "right".  Well, when you make invalid statements about the current system, then in a way you are actually coming across as very wrong.  

 

 

[dsotm]

Put in for hunts with better odds or quit complaining. I've been drawn for deer 6 years in a row now.

[Titanium700]

As a nonresident who used to be a resident (wish I bought the lifetime license 😢) I definitely don’t want any more changes to the system. 
well. One….I wish nonresidents who put in every year got at least up to 20% cap, not 10% but it is what it is and I’ll live with it. 
wont be signing the petition. 
And if he hasn’t gotten a tag in dozens of years then he’s doing something wrong on his draws other than the premium hunts. 
like maybe putting more than one person on the hard to get draw app?

anyways as a nonresident in the past 20 years I have been on somewhere around 12-15 hunts, granted not all my own as I have 2 kids and a father in law (who is a resident ) to hunt with. 
we don’t always put in for the premium hunts and we’ve pulled some very respectable critters out of the mountains/woods. 
like the bull in my avatar (that’s a 3b bull)

my son killed a 97” coues

i blew a chance on a 200+ inch Mule deer and lost a bonified 130” coues. 
so……somebody is messing something up somewhere and it ain’t AZ……

[trphyhntr]

7 minutes ago, Titanium700 said:

As a nonresident who used to be a resident (wish I bought the lifetime license 😢) I definitely don’t want any more changes to the system. 
well. One….I wish nonresidents who put in every year got at least up to 20% cap, not 10% but it is what it is and I’ll live with it. 
wont be signing the petition. 
And if he hasn’t gotten a tag in dozens of years then he’s doing something wrong on his draws other than the premium hunts. 
like maybe putting more than one person on the hard to get draw app?

anyways as a nonresident in the past 20 years I have been on somewhere around 12-15 hunts, granted not all my own as I have 2 kids and a father in law (who is a resident ) to hunt with. 
we don’t always put in for the premium hunts and we’ve pulled some very respectable critters out of the mountains/woods. 
like the bull in my avatar (that’s a 3b bull)

my son killed a 97” coues

i blew a chance on a 200+ inch Mule deer and lost a bonified 130” coues. 
so……somebody is messing something up somewhere and it ain’t AZ……

I’ve been applying for 3b for 9 years since be got 11 points now. 

[bigbuckclub]

9 hours ago, geoffsl said:

Like I said and the whole point of my post was to say I don’t agree with the way we handle the distribution of tags…like I also said, there probably isn’t a perfect system…you charts really highlight the problem…and it really is depressing.

I have never tried to hold out for only trophy hunts (for example turkey, deer and javelina)  and I have only put in for archery bull…I have my reasons for putting in for the unit I do…it’s not the primo unit in the state but yes it is a good unit. 
I appreciate you sending the charts.  That helps visually explain the dilemma. 

You have 14 points for deer... You can literally draw any deer hunt you want - guaranteed - besides 3A/3C late rifle, 12AE late rifle, 12AW late rifle, 12B/12BW late rifle, 13A and 13B. These are all of the premier mule deer rut hunts in the state. You could even argue these are many of the best mule deer hunts in the world. You made this decision. There are 7 hunts TOTAL that you are not in the bonus pass. You can have ANY coues deer tag you want next year and go hunting. You have decided that you don't want to. That's on you. You can also archery hunt every year and put in for 12AW late rifle every year until you draw. You decided not to do that. 

If you really think you only have a 3% chance to draw with the points you have and that there are no guaranteed tags, next year put 12AW late rifle first choice and any of the hunts not listed above as your second choice and you will draw a tag... guaranteed. 

The truth is... you ARE putting in for a trophy hunt. 12AW late IS a trophy hunt. 

[TR0UBLE SH00TER]

17 hours ago, geoffsl said:

Thats where you are wrong. . .it is NOT a preferential system at all. . .at no point does the fact that you have waited the longest guarantee you have a tag. . .it just means you have more chances to be randomly selected in the bonus pool pass of the draw. . .and I think that is the problem. . .people don't understand how it works.  There is a big difference between a preferential system and bonus point system.  

I would be more ok if like you say it was a good balance. . .but how is 20% of the tags balanced?  When  the general pop gets a shot at 70% of the tags??? Thats not balanced at all.  Make it 50 / 50 it you like a balance. . .spending more money and more time in line, should account for something.

"Old people's votes should count more!"

 

 

[bonecollector]

16 hours ago, cjl2010 said:

This has natureboob written all over it. There are guys out there drawing tags that aren’t even real hunters!!! And girls too!!!

Wonder if he drew his sheep tag this year or if more fake hunters drew them? 

[bojangles]

1 hour ago, bigbuckclub said:

You have 14 points for deer... You can literally draw any deer hunt you want - guaranteed - besides 3A/3C late rifle, 12AE late rifle, 12AW late rifle, 12B/12BW late rifle, 13A and 13B. These are all of the premier mule deer rut hunts in the state. You could even argue these are many of the best mule deer hunts in the world. You made this decision. There are 7 hunts TOTAL that you are not in the bonus pass. You can have ANY coues deer tag you want next year and go hunting. You have decided that you don't want to. That's on you. You can also archery hunt every year and put in for 12AW late rifle every year until you draw. You decided not to do that. 

If you really think you only have a 3% chance to draw with the points you have and that there are no guaranteed tags, next year put 12AW late rifle first choice and any of the hunts not listed above as your second choice and you will draw a tag... guaranteed. 

The truth is... you ARE putting in for a trophy hunt. 12AW late IS a trophy hunt. 

I’m playing the game.  No draw with 13 pts for me this year.  
 

but I get to chase ‘em with stick and string…

[Titanium700]

1 hour ago, trphyhntr said:

I’ve been applying for 3b for 9 years since be got 11 points now. 

I think I had 12 a few years ago when I got my ML tag. 
I’d say you are due.