Its Time To Change the Arizona Bonus Point System

[dentedr]

This is all of the problem we have with being able to take a limited resource from the landscape while still being able to keep said resource on the landscape. There will never be a fair way to give everyone a shot as there isn’t enough to go around. Some of the fun is being in the group that some pulls a tag with too little points to draw.  We all know someone. 
 

I’m not offering solutions to the situation but this snowflake that started this has no understanding of what it takes to keep wild critters in wild places. This ain’t pay in and get what you want, especially in AZ. 

[bigbuckclub]

28 minutes ago, codyhuntsaz said:

This is not true. You can be in the bonus pass round for a hunt for many years before you draw it. Say an antelope tag…maybe 2 tags go to the bonus pass round, but 30 guys with max points apply, could technically take you 15 years to draw that tag all while being at max points. 

That's kind of splitting hairs. Does that problem really exist for deer? You can also get drawn in the bonus pass if you have less than max points. For example, 20 tags go in max, only 5 people with 20 points put in for it and the remaining 15 go to guys with 19. Those are one off cases IMO. The statement that nobody is guaranteed a tag is wrong. Particularly for most deer hunts. It's not perfect though, which is why point creep exists.  

The broader point is the guy in this thread doesn't understand how the draw works. That much is clear. 

[geoffsl]

2 hours ago, Chef said:

I've drawn zero for bighorn & Az antelope.

I've only drawn two Az elk tags, one late Kaibab tag,

I help out on hunts, so I get to hit the hills, every single year.

Me too.  Just haven’t gotten to be the trigger man and carry the bow guy. 

[vitalzone]

Really, not signing this.

 

[idgaf]

I didn't get drawn for anything either!  I demand a recount! Until I get a tag!

[AZkiller]

4 hours ago, Oakley said:

I say pay in full, up front. 

No problem. Go ahead and amend the state constitution and do that. We have a process and if that’s what you would like to advocate for the contact your state representative.

[AZkiller]

4 hours ago, geoffsl said:

I wish I were. . .we I drew this year. . .I had tag #1. . .and I thought no shoot. . .who else had six points for turkey?  But my point is it is statistically possible--and I proved it.  just like sandhill crane. . .should be hard to draw but since they don't accumulate points for that everyone has the same chance. . .and with turkey. . .think about, everyone has the perm point for hunter ed, most people have the loyatly point. ..so everyone is in both the bonus pool and the gen pool. . .so if you have a 1000 people put in and only 500 tags half of you aren't hunting that year.  And all you have to do is look at a roulette table and see just because it hit red last time doesn't mean its going to hit black this time. . .trust me, I was fit to be tied not drawing turkey with 5 points.

I didn’t draw unit 1 turkey 1st hunt this year with 6 points 

[trphyhntr]

1 hour ago, dentedr said:

This is all of the problem we have with being able to take a limited resource from the landscape while still being able to keep said resource on the landscape. There will never be a fair way to give everyone a shot as there isn’t enough to go around. Some of the fun is being in the group that some pulls a tag with too little points to draw.  We all know someone. 
 

I’m not offering solutions to the situation but this snowflake that started this has no understanding of what it takes to keep wild critters in wild places. This ain’t pay in and get what you want, especially in AZ. 

dudes like the OP are the type to complain and ruin it for everyone else because it didn’t go their way. 

[trphyhntr]

8 minutes ago, AZkiller said:

I didn’t draw unit 1 turkey 1st hunt this year with 6 points 

Interesting. I didn’t get it with 2 

[AZkiller]

Just now, trphyhntr said:

Interesting. I didn’t get it with 2 

Imma put in for Goulds next year and bitch that I didn’t draw again. This dude has to be 23yo

[25-06]

8 minutes ago, trphyhntr said:

dudes like the OP are the type to complain and ruin it for everyone else because it didn’t go their way. 

And every year we get people that go bat sh!t crazy on this site that didn't get a tag. Is this the new norm? I sure hope not.

[geoffsl]

12 minutes ago, trphyhntr said:

dudes like the OP are the type to complain and ruin it for everyone else because it didn’t go their way. 

Obviously, you didn’t read any of my post…jumped to a lot of conclusions about who I am and what I do…I am like everyone of you…
simply made one point….and every talks about how dumb I am for putting in for a hard to draw units…and that I must not be a good hunter and just a whiner…really don’t give a crap what you think.

its a simple question and don’t try explaining to me how the draw system works…I promise I have read its studied it using the departments own published odds charts etc…so stop trying to prove you know more. And telling me how I should put in for different hunts…

my belief with out bastardizing it;

yes or no? Do people get tags before the first person in line?  Just answer that question…

of course, as we all well know…the answer is yes  

Now here is the part that makes some of you go crazy…….in my opinion which I have more than well earned the right to voice no more or less than any of you…

I don’t think that is right.  That’s it…there is no more to it.  
 

there may or may not be a better way to do it  but bottom line that is how I feel.  And I guess I am alone in that thought..it doesn’t make me a whiner  it doesn’t make me a snowflake  

I just believe first come first serve….

 

 

 

[Huntandfish]

Even if you gave all the tags to the people who waited the longest it would take decades too clear out point holders which means grandpa‘s going hunting soon you’ll be going hunting in 30  years and your kids will never go antelope or sheep hunting with this plan of entitlement. There was only 140 bighorn sheep tags and 187 antelope tags this year clearly not enough for everybody that’s why it’s a draw don’t like the rules don’t play. If you like to hunt archery you could’ve drawn the 12s three times with those points by now or early rifle but you’re holding out for a trophy late hunt. Those deer are there during the archery and early rifle season. This is been your choice to wait this long to go hunting in Arizona. You’re holding out for some the best units that’s what you get. Here’s how many people that have more points then you right now should they get a tag before you?You know those nonresident waited longer than you two does that entitled them. 

[trphyhntr]

9 minutes ago, geoffsl said:

Obviously, you didn’t read any of my post…jumped to a lot of conclusions about who I am and what I do…I am like everyone of you…
simply made one point….and every talks about how dumb I am for putting in for a hard to draw units…and that I must not be a good hunter and just a whiner…really don’t give a crap what you think.

its a simple question and don’t try explaining to me how the draw system works…I promise I have read its studied it using the departments own published odds charts etc…so stop trying to prove you know more. And telling me how I should put in for different hunts…

my belief with out bastardizing it;

yes or no? Do people get tags before the first person in line?  Just answer that question…

of course, as we all well know…the answer is yes  

Now here is the part that makes some of you go crazy…….in my opinion which I have more than well earned the right to voice no more or less than any of you…

I don’t think that is right.  That’s it…there is no more to it.  
 

there may or may not be a better way to do it  but bottom line that is how I feel.  And I guess I am alone in that thought..it doesn’t make me a whiner  it doesn’t make me a snowflake  

I just believe first come first serve….

 

 

 

first come first serve would have been waiting in line every year like black friday. 

[geoffsl]

2 minutes ago, Huntandfish said:

Even if you gave all the tags to the people who waited the longest it would take decades too clear out point holders which means grandpa‘s going hunting soon you’ll be going hunting in 30  years and your kids will never go antelope or sheep hunting with this plan of entitlement. There was only 140 bighorn sheep tags and 187 antelope tags this year clearly not enough for everybody that’s why it’s a draw don’t like the rules don’t play. If you like to hunt archery you could’ve drawn the 12s three times with those points by now or early rifle but you’re holding out for a trophy late hunt. Those deer are there during the archery and early rifle season. This is been your choice to wait this long to go hunting in Arizona. You’re holding out for some the best units that’s what you get. Here’s how many people that have more points then you right now should they get a tag before you?You know those nonresident waited longer than you two does that entitled them. 

Like I said and the whole point of my post was to say I don’t agree with the way we handle the distribution of tags…like I also said, there probably isn’t a perfect system…you charts really highlight the problem…and it really is depressing.

I have never tried to hold out for only trophy hunts (for example turkey, deer and javelina)  and I have only put in for archery bull…I have my reasons for putting in for the unit I do…it’s not the primo unit in the state but yes it is a good unit. 
I appreciate you sending the charts.  That helps visually explain the dilemma.