Its Time To Change the Arizona Bonus Point System

[cjl2010]

This has natureboob written all over it. There are guys out there drawing tags that aren’t even real hunters!!! And girls too!!!

[trphyhntr]

2 minutes ago, geoffsl said:

The tag issued was TAG #1.  I don't know if you have every paid attention to that, but they print right on your tag, what number your tag is.  So I got tag #1.  Which again, I thought of course was funny. . .but because I had 6 points to draw it made sense that I got the first tag.  So the year before, I didn't draw turkey with 5 points. . .it was the next year I drew with 6 points.  Which is why I said, I was fit to be tied when I didn't draw with 5--who would have thought 5 wasn't enough to draw turkey.  Yes, I put in for the same spring gobbler every year and will continue to do so. . but now that I dont have the points, I am not sure when I will get drawn again. . .to my point about the system . .I could draw again next and someone who hasn't hunted in a couple years gets skipped again.

You can look up those numbers. What hunt was it that you weren’t drawn with 4 and 5 points for turkey 

[25-06]

1 hour ago, geoffsl said:

and your point is?  We shouldnt try to hunt in trophy units?  and for those of us who do, we should compete with the same odds as everyone else.  Your point isn't to say the system we use is fair, its to say put in for easy to draw hunts. . .but that doesn't change the fact that even in that (putting in for easy to draw units) people get tags ahead of people who have paid more money and waited longer for the opportunity.  Taking six points to draw turkey is ridiculous.  

Sounds like you just have real sh!tty luck. Get over it.

[stanley]

26 minutes ago, geoffsl said:

I am defintely putting in for good units with nice animals. . .all I am saying. . .yes I know I can draw more frequently if I set my sights on lower quality hunts. . .I get it.  I am saying we need to do something about the fact that every year someone with a shoot ton of points gets passed up by someone with less points.  A perferential system vs bonus system.  

Ummm.......   Your argument just lost credibility.    ".....passed up by someone with less points."   Ummm, there is no 'passing up'.  It's a random system.   They did not see your number, then "pass you up', man.  You just weren't as lucky as that other dude.  

Simple.

[stanley]

11 minutes ago, geoffsl said:

here it is "How do Bonus Points work in the Big Game Drawing?
There are 3 phases to the Big Game Drawing – the Bonus Point Pass, the First-Second Choice Pass, and the Third-Fourth-Fifth Choice Pass. For each phase of the drawing, a random number is generated for each application plus additional random numbers for each group bonus point (which includes the Hunter Education and Loyalty bonus points) credited to the application. The lowest random number generated for an application is used in the drawing process.

 

again, as they say...yes your points increase your odds. . .with the cavet of (NO MATTER HOW SMALL).  They couldnt be more right.  

Regardless. . .doesn't change the fact that people get tags out of order. 

Here, too....    Your argument (complaining) is invalid.  "....people get tags out of order."   Nobody got a tag out of order.   There is NO order.  It's random.  

Given it is a random draw, the condition of someone getting something out of order doesn't make sense.  

[wish2hunt]

4 minutes ago, cjl2010 said:

This has natureboob written all over it. There are guys out there drawing tags that aren’t even real hunters!!! And girls too!!!

I was thinking the same thing

[JSR]

If you wanted a preference point system you should have been applying in Colorado, not AZ.

Then you can send Colorado money year after year with ZERO chance of drawing a tag until you accumulate the needed number of points (assuming point creep doesn't bite you)

 

[HuntHarder]

Can you imagine how pissed Geoff Larson gets when some asshat wins the lottery buying his first ticket EVER.  Geoff has spent 1000$ and never one and this guy just "cut the line".   Or that sorry sunbitch who sits down next to you at the casino and pulls that handle once and wins the progressive.  Lucky, unfair SOB.  Don't even get Geoff started on the raffle tags.  

[geoffsl]

2 minutes ago, bigbuckclub said:

Now I know you are trolling. Those are bonus points. I was asking about the bonus pass. I provided the link you need:

https://www.azgfd.com/hunting/draw/process/

I got it. . .we are saying the same thing. . .except you are saying that you are guaranteed a tag at some point because you have the most points. . .thats only true if the number of tags in the allocation exceeds the number of 1st and 2nd choices from the randomly selected numbers. . .I am saying and quoting them and take them at their word when they say. . .it does increase your chances (no matter how small).   Even they admit it--that the points do increase your odds however small.  

But I do get what you are saying. . .yes the more points you have the better your chances. . .that is true.  Sorry, not to make it clear that I understand that and so yes I can say I agree with you. 

My whole point is very simple. . .First come first serve.  and if you want to give people a chance. . .reverse the percentages and more people who have been waiting longer will get tags ahead of those who haven't.  I get it you don't like that idea. . .but every where we go. . .that is the way it is.  And it is weird to me that it is not that way for us in Arizona. . .many of our neighboring states have success game management strategies with more equitable ways of issuing tags.   Their fees are any more than ours. . .etc. etc. 

[1uglydude]

1 hour ago, geoffsl said:

I  understand the system and Yes I understand I am eligible for the 70% pool as well not 80 as you suggest. 10% goes to out of state. . .so it looks like you are the one who needs the refresher course.   so using the departments own draw odds publication you can see, the bonus pool pass issued less that 1 percent of the 1st and 2nd choice tags to people with points and less than 2.5 percent to those who had no points. . .so in this case, you have a total of 3 % of drawing--with a better chance getting the tag from the general draw than the "bonus".    Look at Hunt #03149--again using the game and fish publication.

You are welcome to refresh you understanding. . .and maybe it more people did they would understand why what i am suggesting is fair.

I stopped reading your rants right here, because this post alone highlights that you have no idea what you are talking about.  10% are not guaranteed for out of state...that would be like the New Mexico system.  There is a 10% CAP on out of state...as in "no more than 10%".    Stop saying that others need a refresher course when you obviously never learned it for yourself.

[Rudebob]

Really, a petition on change.org?  How can you expect anyone to take you seriously?

[trphyhntr]

I haven’t seen a beating like this since someone stuck a banana down my pants and turned a monkey loose. 

[dustin25]

23 minutes ago, geoffsl said:

I am sorry you don't

straight from their website "What is a Bonus Point?
An accumulated credit (or point) that authorizes the Department to issue a Big Game Drawing applicant additional computer-generated random numbers during a draw. The bonus point system grants an applicant one random number entry for each bonus point that has been accumulated into the drawing for that species. Each bonus point random number entry is in addition to the application random number entry itself. This system provides applicants with an added chance of receiving a low random number in the draw, hence improving their draw odds, while still providing a chance (no matter how small) for any applicant to get drawn."  

 

and now re read the last line. . .(no matter how small) and compare it with their own publication. . .about bonus pool draw odds.   the sum total of odds for my to draw that tag (3a/3c archery bull) was less than 1%--that number is from their own website. . .so tell my how I am supposed to get  a tag from that?  it will never be guaranteed.  

eed tag from that?  it will never be guaranteed.  

I’m not sure why I’m arguing with you…. That paragraph above is true, AFTER the top 20% has been given the GUARANTEED tags in the bonus pass. THEN you get a number for each bonus point, which each give you an additional “lottery ticket” for a chance to get drawn in what is called the 1/2 pass ( first and second choice). If still unsuccessful, the same process is used for choices 3/4/5  ONLY IF there were any tags left after the bonus pass and 1/2 pass.

just stop arguing, we are trying to teach you how the draw works

[geoffsl]

Just now, HuntHarder said:

Can you imagine how pissed Geoff Larson gets when some asshat wins the lottery buying his first ticket EVER.  Geoff has spent 1000$ and never one and this guy just "cut the line".   Or that sorry sunbitch who sits down next to you at the casino and pulls that handle once and wins the progressive.  Lucky, unfair SOB.  Don't even get Geoff started on the raffle tags.  

You are hilarious.  So funny.  I imagine you are just as o.k. with going to a restaurant, ordering your food and watch plate after plate of food getting delivered to people who ordered an hour after you. . .or so jovial and fun when you are at the grocery store with a cart full of items as one by one people from back of the line get rung up ahead of you. . .but youre right I am such butt for thinking that first come first serve should be a thing.  

[CouesFanatic]

Keep the current system. The only change I see needed is a price increase. $58 dollars for a deer tag seems very low. I spend more than that going to dinner with the family. 

The random part of the draw keeps people applying, especially new people and kids. Go look at Nevadas odds if you think our system is bad.