OTC hunts for 2023

[ThomC]

Lame and fishy has a different agenda and capabilities than you 'all.  

[creed]

11 hours ago, shooterpar said:

From my understanding and chats with Azgfd, they will not be splitting up the dates.  If the harvest is reached in august, the December and January seasons will be closed.  

That sucks. They are potentially decreasing opportunity.

[zackcarp]

On 3/25/2022 at 4:48 PM, StickFlicker said:

The thing that makes no sense to me is the apparent randomness of the 20% max archery harvest that they've used for years.  Let's just look at an extreme case to see if this model works correctly; If most of the rifle hunters decided that they preferred to be bowhunters for deer, G&F would still not allow more of the kill to go to bowhunters because it is capped at 20% of the rifle kill.  That's true even if 95% of the hunters showed a preference to hunt with a bow instead of a rifle (I said we're looking at an extreme example to see if the system works).  Shouldn't it be set on a dynamic basis so that the more hunters that expressed a preferred desire to hunt with a bow (or even if more expressed a desire to hunt with a rifle for that matter), the permits and subsequent kill should reflect that?  It is that way for the other species.  If a higher percentage of hunters applied for archery ELK first choice and not rifle, they would adjust the number of permits (and resulting harvest) to give more archery permits and fewer rifle.  But for deer hunting, they have a flat and fixed percentage that can't change no matter how much demand for archery permits increases and rifle permits decreases?  That has always made no sense to me.

This will be unpopular, but no one is stopping anyone from bow hunt during rifle season.

[Newbie2012]

2 hours ago, creed said:

That sucks. They are potentially decreasing opportunity.

Yeah, if the success rate continues its upward trend, the harvest limits will be reached early. Those January hunts will never see the light of day.

[creed]

40 minutes ago, Newbie2012 said:

Yeah, if the success rate continues its upward trend, the harvest limits will be reached early. Those January hunts will never see the light of day.

And those late rut hunts are what I live for. I cannot imagine not chasing  rutting mule deer.

[dustin25]

We don’t know if success rates are rising…

[CouesFanatic]

 

1 hour ago, creed said:

And those late rut hunts are what I live for. I cannot imagine not chasing  rutting mule deer.

From what I've heard it would start Jan 1 through Dec 31st. So January would be guaranteed open but August and December could close. I could be wrong though. Anyone have good info in this?

[Sneaker]

I am pretty sure for quotas they are going with starting the count in August, which makes sense based on the "regulations year" but doesn't make sense for the hunters OTC tag which starts in Jan obv. Going to be very few Jan hunts available if they don't increase the 20% cap (which by definition means taking away a few rifle tags, which the department apparently recoils at).

[Newbie2012]

58 minutes ago, Sneaker said:

I am pretty sure for quotas they are going with starting the count in August, which makes sense based on the "regulations year" but doesn't make sense for the hunters OTC tag which starts in Jan obv. Going to be very few Jan hunts available if they don't increase the 20% cap (which by definition means taking away a few rifle tags, which the department apparently recoils at).

I think you're correct: 

ArizonaGame and Fish Department Hunt Guidelines for Fall 2023 through Spring 2028 harvest limit will be based on the August through January time period, south of the Colorado River, without established harvest objectives, will be offered according to the table below. 

[dustin25]

1 hour ago, Sneaker said:

I am pretty sure for quotas they are going with starting the count in August, which makes sense based on the "regulations year" but doesn't make sense for the hunters OTC tag which starts in Jan obv. Going to be very few Jan hunts available if they don't increase the 20% cap (which by definition means taking away a few rifle tags, which the department apparently recoils at).

Why do they need to increase the cap?! Currently, nobody has ANY CLUE how many deer are killed during archery season. The only estimate I’ve seen way WAY over, something like 3600 archery deer killed in Arizona. Which is laughable. Start with mandatory reporting and go from there, at least they could pretend to have an idea what they’re doing

[AZcoues_addict]

On 3/25/2022 at 3:48 PM, StickFlicker said:

The thing that makes no sense to me is the apparent randomness of the 20% max archery harvest that they've used for years.  Let's just look at an extreme case to see if this model works correctly; If most of the rifle hunters decided that they preferred to be bowhunters for deer, G&F would still not allow more of the kill to go to bowhunters because it is capped at 20% of the rifle kill.  That's true even if 95% of the hunters showed a preference to hunt with a bow instead of a rifle (I said we're looking at an extreme example to see if the system works).  Shouldn't it be set on a dynamic basis so that the more hunters that expressed a preferred desire to hunt with a bow (or even if more expressed a desire to hunt with a rifle for that matter), the permits and subsequent kill should reflect that?  It is that way for the other species.  If a higher percentage of hunters applied for archery ELK first choice and not rifle, they would adjust the number of permits (and resulting harvest) to give more archery permits and fewer rifle.  But for deer hunting, they have a flat and fixed percentage that can't change no matter how much demand for archery permits increases and rifle permits decreases?  That has always made no sense to me.

The difference with elk is they are all draw tags, so easier to manage.  Deer has OTC combined with draw tags.  My guess is they want to try and keep the deer rifle tags #'s relatively flat with only small changes in tag numbers each year (easier for budget and objective planning), while still selling as many OTC tags as possible (to optiminze budget), all while not killing too many archery deer that will drastically affect next years rifle tag numbers or buck:doe ratio negativley. And they think 20% works.  Just simple management. 

So the OTC archery tags are cut first, since the rifle tags are more difficult to manage and plan for.  In other words the OTC tags take a back-seat.  They assume you will hunt another unit that is open, or not hunt at all. 

I don't like this idea, it's just what I've come up with, after many years of sitting glassing for archery deer, while wondering the same thing as you.

[Sobrbiker]

Will they shift the OTC tags to cover the season, or stick with calendar year?

I think there’s gonna be a lot of out of towners on their first “western hunt” going down in the heat on velvet hunts since it’s now a race to closure. Hope they budget “rescue money” in their hunt plan-AZ charges back for rescues on folks that go out unprepared, right?

[Northern Pintail]

On 6/8/2022 at 4:15 AM, Sobrbiker said:

Will they shift the OTC tags to cover the season, or stick with calendar year?

I think there’s gonna be a lot of out of towners on their first “western hunt” going down in the heat on velvet hunts since it’s now a race to closure. Hope they budget “rescue money” in their hunt plan-AZ charges back for rescues on folks that go out unprepared, right?

The regs have the threshold for the august December and January hunts.   I think they will stay with the season  if I understand you correct 

[grey curse]

When someone calls the harvest hot line to check the status if a unit is open, does the recording give the amount of deer already taken in each unit?   I would think it’s whatever they do for otc bear but I have never called.