OTC hunts for 2023

[Sneaker]

I admit I’m being lazy. Does anybody know if the approved regs are going to bring back much of the January 2023 deer units/hunting that were closed last year/this year? I lost track of all the changes and proposals and what the future is going to look like.

[creed]

We should know soon. I had thoughts about unit 42 and the December closure. If they go to the quota system it should open up. In fact I would think that all units should open. It would give more opportunity to get away from the crowds and have a better quality hunt.

[654321]

Archery Over-the-Counter Units (nonpermit-tag units):  Archery hunt opportunity for all mule deer units not listed above as archery draw units and all white-tailed deer units may be offered in August-September, December, and/or January and each unit or grouping of units will have a harvest limit (harvest threshold) established, provided the appropriate Commission Rules and technology infrastructure are in place to allow for and manage a harvest limit approach.  The harvest limit will be set to achieve an archery deer harvest that represents 20% of the overall harvest in each unit(s). When the harvest limit in a unit(s) is reached the over-the-counter archery deer season in that unit(s) will close for the remainder of the season dates listed in the hunt regulations for that unit(s); Arizona Game and Fish Department Hunt Guidelines for Fall 2023 through Spring 2028 13 harvest limit will be based on the August through January time period. south of the Colorado River, without established harvest objectives, will be offered according to the table below.  If the Commission Rules and technology infrastructure are not yet in place then archery deer hunt opportunity will either be offered as over-the-counter hunts managed not to exceed 20% of the overall harvest or as archery draw hunts.

[Newbie2012]

Usually late April, early May.

[creed]

14 minutes ago, 654321 said:

The harvest limit will be set to achieve an archery deer harvest that represents 20% of the overall harvest in each unit(s).

So if I use unit 42 as an example, 81 general bucks were taken. They are going to base the archery tags on 20% of that which would be 16 additonal deer or assume that the 81 deer represent 80% of the take and make a total of 101 deer taken?? That would add 20 deer to the total harvest???  I am confused.

[654321]

4 minutes ago, creed said:

So if I use unit 42 as an example, 81 general bucks were taken. They are going to base the archery tags on 20% of that which would be 16 additonal deer or assume that the 81 deer represent 80% of the take and make a total of 101 deer taken?? That would add 20 deer to the total harvest???  I am confused.

If I had to guess if their mandatory reporting isn't up and running they will continue to do the OTC like they are currently. If they believe the harvest is greater than 20% they will put the unit to a draw.  I would guess that the regulations will pretty much mirror what they are now.

[Sneaker]

So Jan 2023 will fall under the regs that will be coming out soon then, and therefore likely still have a lot of the old archery opportunities closed?

[ForkHorn]

They quite literally are making decisions based off of harvest without having any real idea of what the harvest is. 

 

Especially archery.

[bigbuckfever]

1 hour ago, 654321 said:

Archery Over-the-Counter Units (nonpermit-tag units):  Archery hunt opportunity for all mule deer units not listed above as archery draw units and all white-tailed deer units may be offered in August-September, December, and/or January and each unit or grouping of units will have a harvest limit (harvest threshold) established, provided the appropriate Commission Rules and technology infrastructure are in place to allow for and manage a harvest limit approach.  The harvest limit will be set to achieve an archery deer harvest that represents 20% of the overall harvest in each unit(s). When the harvest limit in a unit(s) is reached the over-the-counter archery deer season in that unit(s) will close for the remainder of the season dates listed in the hunt regulations for that unit(s); Arizona Game and Fish Department Hunt Guidelines for Fall 2023 through Spring 2028 13 harvest limit will be based on the August through January time period. south of the Colorado River, without established harvest objectives, will be offered according to the table below.  If the Commission Rules and technology infrastructure are not yet in place then archery deer hunt opportunity will either be offered as over-the-counter hunts managed not to exceed 20% of the overall harvest or as archery draw hunts.

I think they need to hire a couple dozen more lawyers to draw up the regs so we can be thoroughly confused.  Smfh.

[StickFlicker]

The thing that makes no sense to me is the apparent randomness of the 20% max archery harvest that they've used for years.  Let's just look at an extreme case to see if this model works correctly; If most of the rifle hunters decided that they preferred to be bowhunters for deer, G&F would still not allow more of the kill to go to bowhunters because it is capped at 20% of the rifle kill.  That's true even if 95% of the hunters showed a preference to hunt with a bow instead of a rifle (I said we're looking at an extreme example to see if the system works).  Shouldn't it be set on a dynamic basis so that the more hunters that expressed a preferred desire to hunt with a bow (or even if more expressed a desire to hunt with a rifle for that matter), the permits and subsequent kill should reflect that?  It is that way for the other species.  If a higher percentage of hunters applied for archery ELK first choice and not rifle, they would adjust the number of permits (and resulting harvest) to give more archery permits and fewer rifle.  But for deer hunting, they have a flat and fixed percentage that can't change no matter how much demand for archery permits increases and rifle permits decreases?  That has always made no sense to me.

[creed]

Another thought......units with multiple hunts, if there are 300 deer allowed in a given hunt are they going to allow all archery allocated deer to be taken in any given hunt or break it down to where 10 are allowed in the early hunt, 10 in December and 10 in Jan or  start with 30 and whenever that number is reached shut down the archery hunts? Personally I would prefer to see it spread out for more hunting opportunity. The possibility would exist that all archery deer could be killed in the early hunt and that would close down the later hunts.

[Sneaker]

On 3/25/2022 at 3:48 PM, StickFlicker said:

The thing that makes no sense to me is the apparent randomness of the 20% max archery harvest that they've used for years.  Let's just look at an extreme case to see if this model works correctly; If most of the rifle hunters decided that they preferred to be bowhunters for deer, G&F would still not allow more of the kill to go to bowhunters because it is capped at 20% of the rifle kill.  That's true even if 95% of the hunters showed a preference to hunt with a bow instead of a rifle (I said we're looking at an extreme example to see if the system works).  Shouldn't it be set on a dynamic basis so that the more hunters that expressed a preferred desire to hunt with a bow (or even if more expressed a desire to hunt with a rifle for that matter), the permits and subsequent kill should reflect that?  It is that way for the other species.  If a higher percentage of hunters applied for archery ELK first choice and not rifle, they would adjust the number of permits (and resulting harvest) to give more archery permits and fewer rifle.  But for deer hunting, they have a flat and fixed percentage that can't change no matter how much demand for archery permits increases and rifle permits decreases?  That has always made no sense to me.

I have argued this for a year. They have used the same 20% archery number for at least 30 years since I was a kid, but archery demand is much higher now that it was then, so they need to shift tags from rifle to archery and bump up the percent archers are allowed to kill. I sent the department some spreadsheets and historical graphs about it with rifle applicants Vs otc tag purchases but they just replied and said “we disagree” lol.

[AZBIG10]

11 minutes ago, Sneaker said:

I have argued this for a year. They have used the same 20% archery number for at least 30 years since I was a kid, but archery demand is much higher now that it was then, so they need to shift tags from rifle to archery and bump up the percent archers are allowed to kill. I sent the department some spreadsheets and historical graphs about it with rifle applicants Vs otc tag purchases but they just replied and said “we disagree” lol.

Ha that's too funny

[Riesop]

If we just stopped advertising the "immense hunting opportunities" in Arizona on Youtube and everywhere else this would never have happened 😠

[shooterpar]

On 3/25/2022 at 4:12 PM, creed said:

Another thought......units with multiple hunts, if there are 300 deer allowed in a given hunt are they going to allow all archery allocated deer to be taken in any given hunt or break it down to where 10 are allowed in the early hunt, 10 in December and 10 in Jan or  start with 30 and whenever that number is reached shut down the archery hunts? Personally I would prefer to see it spread out for more hunting opportunity. The possibility would exist that all archery deer could be killed in the early hunt and that would close down the later hunts.

From my understanding and chats with Azgfd, they will not be splitting up the dates.  If the harvest is reached in august, the December and January seasons will be closed.