What is the highest velocity caliber?

[forepaw]

3 hours ago, loboscout said:

Love the Applied Ballistics books and their solver. 
 

Not sure what you mean exactly, or where you think it is basically true. There are a couple assumptions I made, so maybe that is the thing.
 

Maybe an example would help. Anyhow, here is one that I put together. Consider a 180 VLD at 3050 fps and a 150 VLD at 3250 same caliber, .284.

The 180 has terminal velocity high enough to kill out to 1000 and the 150 only out to 750. Drop out to 1000 is the same but only has enough velocity out to 750 to kill. Time of flight is within a few hundredths of a second.

Wind is the separator.  Wind drift at 750 yards is 6 inches more with the 150 in a 10 mph wind. At 1000, wind drift is 15 inches more.

That’s my opinion on why velocity is king out to 500 but after that BC starts to matter for wind and drop. 

I was referring to high B.C. bullets vs. standard bullets (or maybe I did not make that clear).  Your example of a 180 gr. vs. a 150 gr. demonstrates ballistic efficiency very clearly.  But a better example would be two bullets of the same caliber and weight, one a standard flat-base design, and one a streamlined high B.C. boattail.  That's where the difference would become noticeable at longer ranges.  I completely agree though, out to 500 or so yards, velocity is the main consideration.

Curious as to criteria for required velocity to make a clean kill.  I have heard minimum K.E. of say, 1,000 ft. lbs., but generally only hear minimum velocity recommended for bullet expansion.  in the  old days, this was illustrated using a standard cup and core bullet as being adequate for something like a .300 Savage, but a controlled expanding bullet being needed for a magnum caliber.  Then Berger bullets (and some others) came along, and the claim was made that they were great performers because they just needed to get inside the hide and then would fragment, causing a massive would channel and quick kill.  If that is true, and it might be, then wouldn't it also mean you would be picking chunks of jacket and core out of your meat?  I have never understood how that is better than something like a Nosler Partition or Barnes TSX that blows through in more or less one piece but at greater diameter.

   

[yotebuster]

48 minutes ago, forepaw said:

I was referring to high B.C. bullets vs. standard bullets (or maybe I did not make that clear).  Your example of a 180 gr. vs. a 150 gr. demonstrates ballistic efficiency very clearly.  But a better example would be two bullets of the same caliber and weight, one a standard flat-base design, and one a streamlined high B.C. boattail.  That's where the difference would become noticeable at longer ranges.  I completely agree though, out to 500 or so yards, velocity is the main consideration.

Curious as to criteria for required velocity to make a clean kill.  I have heard minimum K.E. of say, 1,000 ft. lbs., but generally only hear minimum velocity recommended for bullet expansion.  in the  old days, this was illustrated using a standard cup and core bullet as being adequate for something like a .300 Savage, but a controlled expanding bullet being needed for a magnum caliber.  Then Berger bullets (and some others) came along, and the claim was made that they were great performers because they just needed to get inside the hide and then would fragment, causing a massive would channel and quick kill.  If that is true, and it might be, then wouldn't it also mean you would be picking chunks of jacket and core out of your meat?  I have never understood how that is better than something like a Nosler Partition or Barnes TSX that blows through in more or less one piece but at greater diameter.

   

Don’t shoot ‘em in the meat.  

[PRDATR]

1 hour ago, forepaw said:

I was referring to high B.C. bullets vs. standard bullets (or maybe I did not make that clear).  Your example of a 180 gr. vs. a 150 gr. demonstrates ballistic efficiency very clearly.  But a better example would be two bullets of the same caliber and weight, one a standard flat-base design, and one a streamlined high B.C. boattail.  That's where the difference would become noticeable at longer ranges.  I completely agree though, out to 500 or so yards, velocity is the main consideration.

Curious as to criteria for required velocity to make a clean kill.  I have heard minimum K.E. of say, 1,000 ft. lbs., but generally only hear minimum velocity recommended for bullet expansion.  in the  old days, this was illustrated using a standard cup and core bullet as being adequate for something like a .300 Savage, but a controlled expanding bullet being needed for a magnum caliber.  Then Berger bullets (and some others) came along, and the claim was made that they were great performers because they just needed to get inside the hide and then would fragment, causing a massive would channel and quick kill.  If that is true, and it might be, then wouldn't it also mean you would be picking chunks of jacket and core out of your meat?  I have never understood how that is better than something like a Nosler Partition or Barnes TSX that blows through in more or less one piece but at greater diameter.

   

The 1000 ft pounds has always gotten a lot of traction. I'd say it is a great benchmark but as you said bullet construction goes a long ways. I will say that the Bergers i have seen, 7 Rem Mag HSM with a 168 are explosive at 500 yards on Elk. Way too much in my opinion. I did see an Elk hit with a 147 Hornady from a 6.5 PRC take just one round at 885 yards and it went maybe 20' DRT. So that energy was under 1K'#'s, just barely though. At the Creed velocity the energy probably drops below 1K'#'s at around 750 yards. Just a guess since I don't have a ballistics program. Maybe someone with one could run the numbers. The Creed should have around 16 pounds of recoil where the faster PRC is about 5 pounds more since it's about 300fps faster.

[muledeerarea33?]

I built a .223 wssm with a 26” douglas xx heavy barrel. Loaded 36 grain varmint grenades. They were blowing up before getting to target. I suspect 44-4600fps. I pulled all the bullets and started over before the chrono.

[PRDATR]

58 minutes ago, muledeerarea33? said:

I built a .223 wssm with a 26” douglas xx heavy barrel. Loaded 36 grain varmint grenades. They were blowing up before getting to target. I suspect 44-4600fps. I pulled all the bullets and started over before the chrono.

When I started getting heavy into reloading in about 88 I bought an Ohler 35P which really was a big help. I have tons of powder, bullets and primers I have hoarded over the years and should really break out my presses and build a bench to get back into it.

I used to back my 78 GMC up to the Silhouette range at Rio and do load developement right there. Of course it wasn't much more that the main rainge and the  practical pistol range was just getting started. There was just one range master back then and we would call the range cease fires our selves. It wasn't until a years later when some dude capped himself and then a couple of years later when the range masters called the range hot with guys downrange still comming back from setting targets up at the 300 yard line that they started all the restrictions.

[muledeerarea33?]

21 minutes ago, PRDATR said:

When I started getting heavy into reloading in about 88 I bought an Ohler 35P which really was a big help. I have tons of powder, bullets and primers I have hoarded over the years and should really break out my presses and build a bench to get back into it.

I used to back my 78 GMC up to the Silhouette range at Rio and do load developement right there. Of course it wasn't much more that the main rainge and the  practical pistol range was just getting started. There was just one range master back then and we would call the range cease fires our selves. It wasn't until a years later when some dude capped himself and then a couple of years later when the range masters called the range hot with guys downrange still comming back from setting targets up at the 300 yard line that they started all the restrictions.

Not sure the last time I’ve shot at an actual shooting range. Tried it, don’t like it, prefer my neighbors 1000 yard range with no masters.

[loboscout]

9 hours ago, forepaw said:

I was referring to high B.C. bullets vs. standard bullets (or maybe I did not make that clear).  Your example of a 180 gr. vs. a 150 gr. demonstrates ballistic efficiency very clearly.  But a better example would be two bullets of the same caliber and weight, one a standard flat-base design, and one a streamlined high B.C. boattail.  That's where the difference would become noticeable at longer ranges.  I completely agree though, out to 500 or so yards, velocity is the main consideration.

Curious as to criteria for required velocity to make a clean kill.  I have heard minimum K.E. of say, 1,000 ft. lbs., but generally only hear minimum velocity recommended for bullet expansion.  in the  old days, this was illustrated using a standard cup and core bullet as being adequate for something like a .300 Savage, but a controlled expanding bullet being needed for a magnum caliber.  Then Berger bullets (and some others) came along, and the claim was made that they were great performers because they just needed to get inside the hide and then would fragment, causing a massive would channel and quick kill.  If that is true, and it might be, then wouldn't it also mean you would be picking chunks of jacket and core out of your meat?  I have never understood how that is better than something like a Nosler Partition or Barnes TSX that blows through in more or less one piece but at greater diameter.

   

Bullet construction/minimum energy/ killing effectiveness is a whole different discussion. I hold heretical views on that and will save that for later. Except, i shoot critters through the lungs behind the shoulder with a 180 VLD. The furthest one went was 75 yards of a dozen, from Coues to Elk. 

Here is a table for a 175 interlock at a generous 3150. It’s worse than the 150 VLD. 

[MMACFIVE]

Its easy to make an argument for a high BC bullets driven as fast as you can for long range shooting. This will reduce both the vertical (drop due to gravity) and horizontal (wind drift) dispersion at long distances.