Any electricians on here?

[Edge]

16 hours ago, PRDATR said:

Lighting is typically on a 15 amp breaker. Outlets are on a 20.

 

Yes on the lighting here, our only 30amp outlets in the house are in the kitchen to accommodate microwave and kitchen appliances.

I'm wondering if the wiring running through the roofs crawl space was shorted out when TRPHYHNTR had that stripper pole installed?

[runningbird]

he said it was a very old home.   could just be one breaker per room.  we have 3 homes built between 1940 and 1951 .  they are set up that way.

 

my guess is new gfci is wired wrong.  it can get confusing when you are new to electric.  

[trphyhntr]

1 hour ago, wish2hunt said:

One thing I do not do is electric.

I’m willing to try anything once. 

[runningbird]

ummm,  you just set yourself up for a thread that will eventually get deleted.  😂 

[Edge]

Somebody good with a multimeter in your hood can tell you whats likely the problemo.

[trphyhntr]

13 minutes ago, runningbird said:

he said it was a very old home.   could just be one breaker per room.  we have 3 homes built between 1940 and 1951 .  they are set up that way.

 

my guess is new gfci is wired wrong.  it can get confusing when you are new to electric.  

You’re probably right, I don’t see how I could have done it wrong though. but I have done a lot of things wrong. I’ll just have to call someone I guess 

[HuntHarder]

If I wasn't complete otherside of valley, I'd troubleshoot it for you. No one with any electrical exp. on the east side, on here?  If you have any questions doing it yourself, pm me and I'll give you a call

[trphyhntr]

9 minutes ago, HuntHarder said:

If I wasn't complete otherside of valley, I'd troubleshoot it for you. No one with any electrical exp. on the east side, on here?  If you have any questions doing it yourself, pm me and I'll give you a call

I have some referrals, I’ll find someone. Just work on pressing them 140s  

[wish2hunt]

2 hours ago, trphyhntr said:

I’m willing to try anything once. 

It could be your last. 

[Beaton]

I would help you if I didn't live in north peoria I work in the electric utility industry but either the gfi is wired backwards,  bad or loose neutral somewhere in the circuit or the main panel.  Do you have a multimeter? You can check all connections to the breaker and neutral at the main panel behind the dead front cover. You can also check voltage with the breaker on and see what you have, but if it's a bad neutral in the wall it will can be hard to track down.

[1uofacat]

Old houses didn't have dedicated microwave circuits (if really old).  Besides, if it did he'd have to remove it to unplug it, therefore its a countertop microwave plugged into an appliance/convenience outlet.

Lights should be on a different circuit, depending on who wired the house (may not be wired to code), so its weird an outlet affected lighting.

Is only kitchen power out?  Sounds like a breaker failure.  Old house, old breakers, probably not rated for the Phoenix heat too helping along failure issues.

Interested in the outcome, keep us posted.

[PRDATR]

21 hours ago, 1uofacat said:

Old houses didn't have dedicated microwave circuits (if really old).  Besides, if it did he'd have to remove it to unplug it, therefore its a countertop microwave plugged into an appliance/convenience outlet.

Lights should be on a different circuit, depending on who wired the house (may not be wired to code), so its weird an outlet affected lighting.

Is only kitchen power out?  Sounds like a breaker failure.  Old house, old breakers, probably not rated for the Phoenix heat too helping along failure issues.

Interested in the outcome, keep us posted.

What makes you think older breakers aren't rated for Phoenix? Just curious. It was still fairly common for tract homes to have 100 amp panels with screwin fuses into the 70's.

[Flashgun]

Run to Harbor freight and buy a volt ohm meter. It's going to make life much easier diagnosing the issue. My first guess would be unplug the microwave and then reset the gfi. Take a reading with the volt ohm meter at the outlet and see if you have your voltage back. There were to many comments so I didn't read thru them all. Maybe someone already suggested that.. Good Luck

 

[1uofacat]

On 2/12/2022 at 5:03 PM, PRDATR said:

What makes you think older breakers aren't rated for Phoenix? Just curious. It was still fairly common for tract homes to have 100 amp panels with screwin fuses into the 70's.

I didn't read the panel had screw in fuses.

As far as breakers go, it's complicated.  Breakers are designed to only protect the circuit wire, not devices connected to them.

While older breakers may have a 75degC rating, commonly the terminals had a 60degC rating.
I've read that breakers are typically tested and calibrated at 40degC. It's not that the breaker wasn't rated appropriately, but when the "weakest link" is rated lower, you must use that as the overall system rating.  Also, the wire must be rated to match the terminal/breaker ratings. 

When a test is conducted they test each pole of the circuit breaker by connecting the line and load terminals of that pole with rated copper conductors. When the terminals are marked 75degC that is the rating of wire that must be used. When the terminals are marked 60degC then 60deg rated wire must be used.
Know too that the wire acts as a heat sink for the breaker. If the wire used is 90degC for example, then the wire adds to the heating of the breaker causing it to derate which essentially moves the trip curve resulting in the breaker being unable to carry its rating & potentially fail.

We don't know what the breaker was doing if & (assuming) when it failed, so it's all guessing at this point.  Either way, hopefully the terminals, wire,  & breakers are all rated appropriately.  If they are all 75C, that corresponds to 167F, whereas 60C is only corresponds to 140F.  I'm guessing that an older home may not have the higher "system" rating  especially given it sounds like the lighting was put on the same circuit as kitchen outlets.

Remember the issue I'm referring to is heat on the panel.  If the electrical panel was mounted facing the Phoenix sun, know metal can reach close to 200 degrees F during the day (depending on paint, outside temperature, wind, etc.).  I personally caught electricians installing 60C rated breakers/terminals in my house in a panel that faced the morning to noon sun, which was a code violation.  They changed them after I discussed this with the electrical inspector for Gilbert (who agreed with me).

60C is probably ok if the panel is never in the sun btw.  Overall, given what was posted, I'm only guessing it's a breaker issue, & possibly related to an overloaded circuit.

BTW, I'm not an electrical engineer, but rather a mechanical engineer with electrical experience in both design & construction. 

[levers]

I would suggest removing the new gfci outlet and starting over.

1.  With the gfi removed, check that the voltage is correct at the gfi box. 

2.  The gfi can be wired in series or parallel.   If there are load wires, then it is series.  If series, connect the wires at the box and verify that every box down stream has voltage.  Make sure to unplug everything using the circuit first.

3.  The lights may be in the series string or they may share the circuit common.   Which could cause the gfi to kick when they are turned on.

4.  Assuming everything checks out, carefully reinstall the gfi making sure to correctly connect line and load wires.

Without seeing it first hand, that's my best advice.