Overridden with the Need for Accuracy?

[Red Rabbit]

While developing the loads with the E-tips in the 300 WSM I have, the better groups have hovered around 1" This got me to thinking if we really need those tiny 0.5" groups for normal hunting to say 400 yards, which is a long way for many and probably further than the game will be spotted. I think the coues I have shot have averaged 250 yards distance.

 

So can one be content with say 1.5" groups?

 

If one's rifle consistently shoots its bullets into 1.5" groups, that means that the furthest a bullet will be away from the point of aim at 100 yards is 3/4" (half the groups size) Likely, it will be closer, hitting inside of the 1.5" circle. So at 400 yards, this fringe bullet would only diverge 3" away from the point of aim at worst. Will missing your point of aim by up to 3" when the crosshairs are centered on a buck's or bull's chest cause one to miss the lungs? In other words, the 1.5" groups will theoretically be 6" groups at 400 yards, still well within the kill zone size of a coues or elk.

 

On top of group size, one can add human error in flinching, buck fever, heavy breathing from trudging up the mountain, unsteady rest, and error in range and wind judgement. But in itself, group size would not be a factor within 400 yards.

 

Even Weatherby comes with only a 1.5" guarantee with proper ammo. Remington, Kimber and Winchester will likely say a 2.5" rifle is within their specs.

 

So so we need a 1/2 inch rifle for normal hunting?

(Granted, it's nice for the confidence and the shots past 500 yards.)

 

 

 

 

 

[firstcoueswas80]

Yep. Its needed! There is nothing like having 100% confidence in the rifle.

[elkhunter]

As long as it's a kill shot, hittin a deer in the heart aint all more fatal than double lunging him...nor hitting the spine, if it puts the deer down fatally then it's good enough

 

But again it's good to have confidence in your rifle, say you have .5in groups at 100 yards and a coues buck walks by at 107 yards...you'll have all the confidence in the world

 

Controling yourself during a shot is a different issue, .5in groups doesnt mean much if you can't control yourself enough for a shot, even at 100 yards or less, I've heard stories of missed elk at 25 yrds with rifle/muzzys and got to witness myself some close missed shots on elk with rifles (40-80yds)

 

this question can be answered in many right ways, each to their own and whatever works for each hunter

[DesertBull]

Old timers wiped out 90% of the elk and buffalo in this country with open sighted black powder rifles.

[hunterdude]

Read one time in Readers digest about a Navajo indian that put "3" shots in the wing of a Air force jet that kept scattering his sheep. That to be beats most standing shots at even 200yrds!

[.270]

only time i shoot a half inch group is when i shoot a .50 caliber one time. Lark.

[AzHunt]

I would say it is important to have consistent shot placement and for the shooter to know this consistency. I would also say the rifle will always be inherently more accurate than the shooter of the rifle. Nice groups on a bench with rests and bags will develop consistency and confidence, however, out in the field, there are many more variables.

[Bird Dog]

While developing the loads with the E-tips in the 300 WSM I have, the better groups have hovered around 1" This got me to thinking if we really need those tiny 0.5" groups for normal hunting to say 400 yards, which is a long way for many and probably further than the game will be spotted. I think the coues I have shot have averaged 250 yards distance.

 

So can one be content with say 1.5" groups?

 

If one's rifle consistently shoots its bullets into 1.5" groups, that means that the furthest a bullet will be away from the point of aim at 100 yards is 3/4" (half the groups size) Likely, it will be closer, hitting inside of the 1.5" circle. So at 400 yards, this fringe bullet would only diverge 3" away from the point of aim at worst. Will missing your point of aim by up to 3" when the crosshairs are centered on a buck's or bull's chest cause one to miss the lungs? In other words, the 1.5" groups will theoretically be 6" groups at 400 yards, still well within the kill zone size of a coues or elk.

 

On top of group size, one can add human error in flinching, buck fever, heavy breathing from trudging up the mountain, unsteady rest, and error in range and wind judgement. But in itself, group size would not be a factor within 400 yards.

 

Even Weatherby comes with only a 1.5" guarantee with proper ammo. Remington, Kimber and Winchester will likely say a 2.5" rifle is within their specs.

 

So so we need a 1/2 inch rifle for normal hunting?

(Granted, it's nice for the confidence and the shots past 500 yards.)

I think for many we have missed why we are hunting. The lack of limitations makes hunting a "non" sport. Even if a rifle shoots to <0.5" doesn't make the 6-800yrd shot reasonably possible for most people. I personally like my rifle to shot at tight as possible. The days when an elk at 30-35 was with in a desired range for a clean shot are gone, both of my bulls were under 20yrds and what a rush to be that close. Just like making an incredable stock on a bedded coues buck to get with in 250 yrds that you spotted at a mile away. That is exactly what make the hunt for me exciting. The idea that I made the stock to be with in a limitation of gun, human, and conditions.

 

[hunter4life]

On a big game rifle 1.5" is plenty good. However, I do prefer my guns to shoot 1" or less 3 shot groups at 100 yards. My average distance shot on coues deer has been 146 yards. I prefer to sneak in pretty close because it is more fun and challenging.

 

On a varmint rifle it is not good enough.

[billrquimby]

I try to develop loads that will give me the tightest group possible at the range. However, with some rifles, that can be a large as two inches. When I'm hunting -- with unsteady rests, moving targets, and unknown distances -- minute-of-animal is all I ask.

 

Bill Quimby

[ruffcountry]

-- minute-of-animal

 

Bill Quimby

 

good one

 

[TAM]

Is it necesary? Probably not. Does the animal deserve a little extra effort to insure the best possible shot placement for a quick humane kill? Yes, with out a doubt. By spending time at the bench working up a 1/2" load THE SHOOTER is getting in lots of valuable practice. Even if you fail to get under moa you are still getting in practice. To me lots of practice with a 2 inch moa rifle is better than little or no practice with a sub moa rifle.

 

I enjoy shooting my rifle and each time I go out I'm trying to better myself as a shooter. I am able to guage my progress by how small my groups are. In doing so I feel more prepared to be a responsible hunter in the field. I also learn what my limitations are.

 

I know the rifle can make the shot... but can you?

 

[AzHunt]

I know the rifle can make the shot... but can you?

 

That is the key question!

[firstcoueswas80]

Is it necesary? Probably not. Does the animal deserve a little extra effort to insure the best possible shot placement for a quick humane kill? Yes, with out a doubt. By spending time at the bench working up a 1/2" load THE SHOOTER is getting in lots of valuable practice. Even if you fail to get under moa you are still getting in practice. To me lots of practice with a 2 inch moa rifle is better than little or no practice with a sub moa rifle.

 

I enjoy shooting my rifle and each time I go out I'm trying to better myself as a shooter. I am able to guage my progress by how small my groups are. In doing so I feel more prepared to be a responsible hunter in the field. I also learn what my limitations are.

 

I know the rifle can make the shot... but can you?

 

 

Very well written! Couldnt agree more!

 

Something I like to do is push myself more and more every time out. If I have two shots that are together, I put a lot of pressure on myself to make the last one go right in there with them.

 

While out in the field, I like to shoot at things that are near impossible to hit.. Let me give you some examples of success that I have had:

Jack Rabbits at 450+ yards.

Prickly pear fruit at 200+ yards, with nothing by my body to make the shot.

A small gord (about the size of a tennis ball) stuck in the arm of a tree, 250 yards (one shot, with witnesses pretty proud of that one)

Points, colors, shadows on rocks etc and different distances. Walk my shots into consistently hitting a rock the size of an elk kill zone at 720 yards with Scout'm one day.

[COOSEFAN]

Is it necesary? Probably not. Does the animal deserve a little extra effort to insure the best possible shot placement for a quick humane kill? Yes, with out a doubt. By spending time at the bench working up a 1/2" load THE SHOOTER is getting in lots of valuable practice. Even if you fail to get under moa you are still getting in practice. To me lots of practice with a 2 inch moa rifle is better than little or no practice with a sub moa rifle.

 

I enjoy shooting my rifle and each time I go out I'm trying to better myself as a shooter. I am able to guage my progress by how small my groups are. In doing so I feel more prepared to be a responsible hunter in the field. I also learn what my limitations are.

 

I know the rifle can make the shot... but can you?

 

 

Word for word agree with you TAM. I now have a gun that is accurate out to 900 yards, will I shoot at an animal at 900 or even 750 yards.....NOPE! But I can guarantee that practicing out to those distances I am going to be dead on at 500 yards and if I can't get closer and it's the buck of my dreams, I'll kill em' and be proud as heck that I did my best to prepare myself and my equipment to make that happen as humanely as possible. Everyone has their own limitations, their own equipment AND their own beliefs. Hunt for yourself, be true to yourself and stay within your own limitations based on your own beliefs and skill level. No matter what, it's our responsibility as hunters to do all we can to ensure a quick humane kill and everyone has different limitations in accomplishing that.