San Carlos tag fees way up

[Grayghos]

I was told the tag fee for hunting SanCarlos in 2005 have taken a very large increase, so I called. The tage fee are

 

Nov a.b.c. 1000.00

dec a.b.c. 1300.00 or 1500.00

D west or East hunts Nov 1500.00

Jan D west East 2500.00

 

I use to like to hunt San Carlos but with this happening really makes me mad!! I really hope it fails on them. I wish there is something we could do but theres not. I'm sure the bear hunts went up too becuase bear hunt are the first thing to sell out.

 

P.s I added up the dollars made from the Whiteman hunts last year 2004 and it was 4.8 mil! I guess thats not enough money..

[TREESTANDMAN]

Grayghost,

 

Come on man! Us stupid white men deserve to be charged up the ying yang to hunt on sacred res land. Heck, they even charge us to drive through res land to get to national forest land. As if the money they make from their casino's and get from the government is not enough to buy their beer and frybread. I'm not racist.

[jamaro]

Treestand that is messed up... Don't forget it was the white man that put natives on the Res... Why because it was supposed to be the most undesireable land... If you don't like it don't hunt there...GOOD FOR THE TRIBE... With NM going to a draw prices around the SW are going to go thru the roof, the tribe is smart enough to capitalize on this..

 

jason

[TREESTANDMAN]

Yeah, the white man put them on the res years and years ago. You call res land the most undesireable land??? I agree that parts of res lands are trashy due to the indians not maintaining the land, but many parts of the res are the most beautiful areas in AZ. What ever happend to all men being created equal? If Indians are able to hunt whiteman land as AZ residents at the same price residents pay, should not the whiteman then be able to hunt indian land the same way? Even though this discrimination happpend years ago, we are still to this day being blamed for injustice and their poverty. They recieve welfare from the goverment, free scholarships, overcharge the whiteman for everything including driving through the res to get to national forest, yet when you drive through the res you see trashy yards and houses w/ nice vehicles and quads with beer bottles everywhere. One of my best friends is an Indian, and I know some who are very hard workers and great people. I just do not agree w/ the benefits indians are given just because they are indians. I think that as a result many of them are a spoiled and lazy people. This is going to be a fun topic. I can feel the heat coming. This is a large generalization, I know that many indians are hard workers and great people.

[More D]

I only wonder if these increases have anything to do with the resent accendents on the res?

 

 

 

[Kelney]

No, I believe it is due to basic economic principals of supply and demand. If the tags sell out quick each year, expect future increases as well.

[jamaro]

"All men created equal" You can not even thing about using that, that was blown out of the water when the US government tried to exterminate the Natives....PLEASE...

 

Look at the history... For years the US government wanted to stop the nomadic ways for the Apache... They stuck them on this crappy land because the government felt that it could break the souls of the Natives... If the Natives did not take care of there land you would not want to hunt there.. In AZ and NM some of the best hunting in the world in on the Reservations... The San Carlos has the best Elk hunting in the world... Are the towns messed up? Yes.. but guess what? You don't hunt in town.. Do they get a free education.. Sure but that is a small price to pay for what the US government has done to the Natives.. GUESS WHAT NEWS FLASH.. If you want a free education anybody can do it.. Look at all the scholarships that are out there... You say they overcharge the whiteman.. If you think it is overcharging DON'T PAY IT.. Bottom Line.

 

Spoiled and Lazy... I will disagree with you.. it is a totally diferent culture for you to judge the culture is just wrong. Natives don't value material goods like many in the Western World.

 

Dude you have issues with the Natives.. Let is go... They are a souverign(spelling?) Nation.. They can do what ever they please...

 

Good For Them...

jason

[TREESTANDMAN]

Jason,

 

The key word here is "years ago". We conquered them just like their tribes conquered other tribes. The government has been overly generous w/ them. My comments on lazyness are probably uncalled for but these past injustices commited by the US government are water under the bridge. There is no more need for the government to pay them back or treat them better than the average man. It bugs me when the topic of "what the whitemen did to the indians" is brought up as a rationalization for all of their benefits. That happend before all of us were born. (Except maybe Lark). Future generations should not have to pay for older generations mistakes.

[jamaro]

I agree what happened years ago happened, we can not undo what happend.... With that in mind... Lets just keep things the way the are... Lets continue helping out where we can... The Res is a Soverign Nation.. They can do what ever they want... They don't even have let you hunt.. They do it because they see an opporunity to become self sufficient AND YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT WAY.. That makes alot of sense... You don't want to help them out but you don't want to let them take care of themselves... What is it?? You can not have it both ways..

 

Overly Generous??? Money does not replace a way of life that was lost... Look at AZ... Even your guides are against the USO situation... Why because the increase revenues can not replace the fact that there childern will have a harder time drawing tags... NR tags in AZ might go thru the roof... and do you hear me crying like a baby? No... I understand that it is a privledge to hunt in AZ and I deal with it... If I don't like the fees I won't hunt.. You should do the same with the Res.

 

You called them spoiled and lazy.. Some stuff can not but unsaid..

 

Ladies and Gentlemen... This is a perfect example of someones Alligator mouth getting there Canary A$$ in trouble...

 

jason

[TREESTANDMAN]

Jamaro,

 

Can I take a wild guess and say you voted for Kerry and Napolitano? Obviously our opinions differ on the reservation situation. I've shared mine openly, this is how I feel, I take nothing back.

[jamaro]

That is too funny... Who cares who I voted for.. Nice side step... The fact remains.. It is there land they can do whatever they want... If you can not afford to hunt the San Carlos I am sure there are 1,000's of hunters who can. Remember the elementary rule of economics.. Supply and Demand... Good for the Tribe... I hope the make a pile of cash....

 

Jason

[TREESTANDMAN]

Jason,

 

Good luck hunting the San Carlos buddy and thanks for the economics lesson.

[jamaro]

[Kelney]

I feel slighted, I thought I provided the economics lesson

[az4life]

I agree with a lot that has been written here, but have anohter prespective. I am sorrye I know this is going to be a long post, but I cannot leave this one alone

 

My main Gripe is that the Natives want it both ways. They use the sovereign nation card when it is convenient and the tribes as a whole then have both hands out for a United States or State of AZ government handout claiming repression, persecution or some other littany of psuedo crimes that were perpetuatied on their Great Great Great ancestors.

 

Well, Jamaro lets put out a hypothetical situation for you to ponder

 

Lets say, My great grandfather got in an argument with your great grandfather. a fight ensued and your great grandfather killed mine. Your great grandfather was made to pay restitution to my great grandfather's family, and also served a prison sentence. He paid his penalty in time and money and was paroled.

 

Jamaro, are you saying that Your grandfather, and your father, and now You, and your son and his son and so on... should STILL be paying restitution to ME for the "crime" that was committed 100 plus years ago?

 

To me, this is what the Native Americans are doing. Holding an eternal, never-ending restitution clause over the heads of the rest of the US. That is what is wrong with the tribes.

 

Next, if I give someone a nice house, I can guarantee that they will not appreciate it and take care of it like it was something that they had to earn and work for on their own. Native, White, Black, Yellow or Brown or Green, It makes no difference what race, that is the plain and simple truth for the majority of humans.

 

If the natives would get off the Government subsidies (which only serve to keep them DOWN) they would Have some pride and their culture of expecting handouts and not caring about material posessions would change for the better. Hard work begets appreciation. I know one Native from an AZ tribe who has left the RES with his family because of these basic truths. Have you ever heard the story, "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. The fact is, the Native "soveriegn nations" keep their members in the fish line so they do not see the lake full of fresh fish they could have if they would o the work themselves.

 

Back to the alleged gouging on tag fees, I have no problem if they charge $100,000 for a squirrel tag on their land. as long as they get the heck off the US government welfare and help their own members out of their self pitty and slothful lifestyles and into a viable and vital nation status.

 

Yes, If I saved, I could hunt on Native lands, but I will not consider it due to the backwards political social system which prefers to keep most of it's members down in less than third world conditions with no hope of ever changing. Casinos help this process too! I won't even step foot in a Tribe casino! In this poor system, Tribal leaders are the few in power and the few who make the rules. Liken it unto the chief and council days. No hope of democracy or real freedom!

 

Better quit now to put on the kevlar jacket.