Big Boguillas Gone?

[Northern Pintail]

On 12/17/2021 at 10:21 PM, Explorer said:

What if you jump over. They don't own the airspace.

Technically they do.  500 feet is what has been ruled on.  That’s where the issue is.  I don’t understand how going through airspace is trespassing but that has been the ruling over the years 

[Northern Pintail]

As for corner crossing in az the private has to be posted or be told you can’t be there.  I don’t know the landownership boundaries but if one was able to legally access state land, my bet is you could access a lot of private that is not going to be posted within the interior of the property.  But the main problem is you’re gonna have to walk and that’s a long ways to get to certain locations. 

[4huntrs]

If this stays this way and access is lost to the Big Bo Game and Fish needs to remove it from Unit 10. A piece of land this size has a huge impact on the type of hunting in Arizona. Don’t want to see it become all about money like so many other states. Yes I think there are private property rights. But there’s a difference with this one. If I close my backyard to elk hunting, nobody’s gonna pay 50 Grand to hunt there. If Big Bo does, it becomes a Rich mans sport.

[Explorer]

On 12/17/2021 at 5:43 AM, AZBob said:

50 less rifle tags and 45 less archery tags were proposed for antelope.

With that many tags lost I wonder what the math will be on max point increase in other units.

[1denogean]

it already is a rich mans sport. and I'm a poor boy. at least i got to experience it once before it was gone

[105Coues]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:51 PM, 4huntrs said:

If this stays this way and access is lost to the Big Bo Game and Fish needs to remove it from Unit 10. A piece of land this size has a huge impact on the type of hunting in Arizona. Don’t want to see it become all about money like so many other states. Yes I think there are private property rights. But there’s a difference with this one. If I close my backyard to elk hunting, nobody’s gonna pay 50 Grand to hunt there. If Big Bo does, it becomes a Rich mans sport.

I agree game and fish should  exclude it from 10 and make hunting on the ranch illegal since the animals belong to the state. Aka the people. If this practice gets started it spread like wildfire and people will be locking every piece of state land they can. I have seen a fair amount of this through the years where roads crossing state land for access were closed due to access being allowed through private. Only to have the private locked later, thus making the state land or forest inaccessible.

[coueswt]

Agree. Outfitter working directly with ranch already has another ranch in unit 10 all to themselves. Now trying again to do the same with this ranch. All about money and that is all they care about. 

[Newbie2012]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:51 PM, 4huntrs said:

If this stays this way and access is lost to the Big Bo Game and Fish needs to remove it from Unit 10. A piece of land this size has a huge impact on the type of hunting in Arizona. Don’t want to see it become all about money like so many other states. Yes I think there are private property rights. But there’s a difference with this one. If I close my backyard to elk hunting, nobody’s gonna pay 50 Grand to hunt there. If Big Bo does, it becomes a Rich mans sport.

There’s actually precedent for this action. In 2011, G&F cancelled the antelope hunt in 19B due to access loss on the Chino Grande Ranch. So they could do it again. 
 

March 24, 2011

PHOENIX – Faced with the loss of public access to a vast area of Game Management Unit 19B north of Prescott, the Arizona Game and Fish Commission on March 23 decided to cancel the pronghorn antelope hunt there prior to the big game draw for the 2011 season.

The commission’s decision affects the hunting prospects for 65 hunters who would have received allocated tags. Commission Chairman Robert Woodhouse said, “There have been closures of other hunt units for a season or more based on biological reasons such as severe winter die offs, loss of habitat due to fires, etc. ... but this was the first time a decision was made to eliminate hunt tags due to public access closures. This was a difficult decision made only after extensive staff input and a long discussion by the commission.”
 

[4huntrs]

Just curious did that action say no hunting on the ranch or just lose the tags. That could be a double loss. Some could draw what’s left of a tag then if they can afford it pay big money to hunt where the tags were supposed to be taken from.

[yotebuster]

Dang.  So where do you guys draw the line with property rights?  If it’s your private backyard and you want to exercise your right to privacy on it that’s ok I guess.  That’s a small acreage you say?  Well where to do draw the line?  5 acres?  50?  500?  Ok.  So just 50,000 acres pieces of PRIVATELY owned land?  That’s the only ones you want the government to blackmail access out of the owner by “shutting down” hunting on it?!?  Seriously?  Must be a lot of Biden stickers stuck next to CWT stickers on the backs of trucks from what I’m reading on here….  The epitome of government overreach is me telling YOU what you can and can’t do on your own land.  That’s literally what democrats do.  
Just to stop the “it’s half state land” argument before it even starts.  That’s the way checkerboard works.  If you want to change that then work on that, the land they are dealing with on access is PRIVATE land!!  It happens to landlock some sweet state land and that’s the way the west has been since the 1870’s.   It sucks but it’s true.  Either lobby for change in corner crossing and then strap your boots on and hike through it, or get a job and buy some land with checker board locked land in it.  That’s the cool thing about the America I know and love, there’s NOTHING stopping you from doing that.. except maybe democrats (and a bunch of CWT members from the sound of it) angling for your private land rights when you buy it.  🤷🏼

[Newbie2012]

40 minutes ago, 4huntrs said:

Just curious did that action say no hunting on the ranch or just lose the tags. That could be a double loss. Some could draw what’s left of a tag then if they can afford it pay big money to hunt where the tags were supposed to be taken from.

Entire hunt in 19B was cancelled. Both archery and rifle. 
 

—————————————-
Friday, March 25, 2011

PHOENIX - Faced with the loss of public access to a vast area of Game Management Unit 19B north of Prescott, the Arizona Game and Fish Commission on March 23rd decided to cancel the pronghorn antelope hunt there prior to the big game draw for the 2011 season.

The commission's decision affects the hunting prospects for 65 hunters who would have received allocated tags. Commission Chairman Robert Woodhouse said, "There have been closures of other hunt units for a season or more based on biological reasons such as severe winter die offs, loss of habitat due to fires, etc...but this was the first time a decision was made to eliminate hunt tags due to public access closures. This was a difficult decision made only after extensive staff input and a long discussion by the commission." 

During the discussion, commissioners pointed out that this was a "no-win situation" for the commission, the department, and for the hunters who applied for the general and archery pronghorn antelope hunts in Unit 19B this fall, but the commission was compelled to do what was most fair to all concerned.

Late last week, the property manager for the Chino Grande Ranch, which is a checkerboard of private and state trust land parcels, verbally notified the department that the ranch is now closed to public access, due to a proposed renewable energy project. Access to other portions of the unit has also become restricted, with some private lands being closed entirely and other ranches allowing access by payment of "trespass" fees.

The Chino Grande Ranch contains a significant portion of the available pronghorn habitat in 19B, its lands also hold the greatest density of pronghorn numbers in the unit.

The deadline to apply for the upcoming draw was Feb. 8 and the draw results are pending, giving the commission only days to modify the affected hunts without affecting thousands of other hunters.

There are 4,780 people who applied for the 65 pronghorn antelope hunt permits in the two hunts (one general hunt and one archery hunt) scheduled for 19B. Game Branch Chief Brian Wakeling said "the antelope hunts in 19B are some of the most coveted in the state."

The commission also considered reducing the number of permits in the hunt but after significant discussion, the members felt that option would do a disservice to those who applied, as the area left open for 2011 would differ substantially from that available when hunters applied in February.

With the elimination of these two hunts, the draw program will treat any choice where these hunts were selected as if all tags had been issued and move to the applicant's next choice. The draw examines first and second choices primarily and then third,fourth, and fifth choices secondarily. The majority of the commissioners felt that to be the most equitable approach.

The commission also expressed its desire to open up a dialogue on the whole land access and wildlife availability issue with land management agencies, county governments and stakeholders to include hunters, anglers and other recreationists. At issue is access to public lands and state trust lands and the management of public resources, such as wildlife and fish.

[4huntrs]

1 hour ago, yotebuster said:

Dang.  So where do you guys draw the line with property rights?  If it’s your private backyard and you want to exercise your right to privacy on it that’s ok I guess.  That’s a small acreage you say?  Well where to do draw the line?  5 acres?  50?  500?  Ok.  So just 50,000 acres pieces of PRIVATELY owned land?  That’s the only ones you want the government to blackmail access out of the owner by “shutting down” hunting on it?!?  Seriously?  Must be a lot of Biden stickers stuck next to CWT stickers on the backs of trucks from what I’m reading on here….  The epitome of government overreach is me telling YOU what you can and can’t do on your own land.  That’s literally what democrats do.  
Just to stop the “it’s half state land” argument before it even starts.  That’s the way checkerboard works.  If you want to change that then work on that, the land they are dealing with on access is PRIVATE land!!  It happens to landlock some sweet state land and that’s the way the west has been since the 1870’s.   It sucks but it’s true.  Either lobby for change in corner crossing and then strap your boots on and hike through it, or get a job and buy some land with checker board locked land in it.  That’s the cool thing about the America I know and love, there’s NOTHING stopping you from doing that.. except maybe democrats (and a bunch of CWT members from the sound of it) angling for your private land rights when you buy it.  🤷🏼

I’m not saying that I have to have access to the Big Bo I’m saying as it’s already been established is the Game animals belong to the state whether they are on public or private land. Close it down if they want. But don’t close it down then profit from a public asset. Think that would be welfare.  Chase all the game animals off it then high fence it to keep them out. Then they can bring in exotics and charge people to shoot them just like Texas. 

[Swivelhead]

Just a WAG, looks like landowner tags are the ultimate goal.  Hopi owned tribal ranches entitle tribal members to a portion of the available tags in exchange for limited access by the general public.  Up to this point in time the permits are not transferable.  Navajo Nation owns the Boquillas,  stay tuned.

[yotebuster]

32 minutes ago, 4huntrs said:

I’m not saying that I have to have access to the Big Bo I’m saying as it’s already been established is the Game animals belong to the state whether they are on public or private land. Close it down if they want. But don’t close it down then profit from a public asset. Think that would be welfare.  Chase all the game animals off it then high fence it to keep them out. Then they can bring in exotics and charge people to shoot them just like Texas. 

So let me get this straight, you think that any private land in the state of AZ should have the animals herded off of it and a high fence put up around it to keep the state owned critters off of it?  Or do you just want that on this one ranch?  We fencing off rezs too?  Herding their elk off (they aren’t gonna like that  )?  How about your yard, fence that off too?  Again where do we draw this line of property right pillaging?  Just big ranches that we used to have unrestricted access to?  Or small ones too?  

[stillatmaxpoints]

Lots of conspiracy theories going on here. 

Could be the ranch wanted to raise the fee's a very small amount.

Could be the G&F wanted to change the structure entirely and pay the ranch one lump sum, and the ranch would have less control of who is there and who isn't.

Very possible and it could be.