yotebuster Report post Posted December 21, 2021 10 hours ago, Flatlander said: 1. Private property rights end at the property line. 2. I don’t think anyone is contesting property rights. What is being contested is the rights to the wildlife on the property. If the owners of the ranch don’t want hunters on their ranch, that’s fine and it seems AZGFD is willing to accommodate that. Owning the dirt or the grazing rights doesn’t entitle anyone to the wildlife. 3. I didn’t see anyone propose saying what they could do on their land. However, there are plenty of laws about what we can and can’t do on our own property. The government tells me when I can have a fire, how tall my house can be, where I can put it on my lot, etc. All because my choices, even on my property, impact many other people. This isn’t any different. 4. There are lots of people working on corner crossing right now. I think you and I agree on a lot of points here. I guess the one thing that keeps coming around that bothers me is the whole “cut them out of the unit if they don’t comply thing”. I honestly agree with making it it’s own unit (essentially like the Baca float) but they need to be provided with some tags just as the multi unit hunt on the Baca is. Every other state out there provides some sort of tit for tat landowner system that shows appreciation for protecting and managing big game in exchange for access. Some are more favorable to the landowner and others the public, but completely shutting down all big game hunting (because they won’t play by the “rules”) on a ranch that’s larger then most big game units is overreach IMO. I can’t imagine owning a ranch in AZ and never having been able to kill an elk on it due to inability to draw a tag, let alone not even allowing hunting on it because they didn’t follow the governments forced hand at access. The game and fish’s job is to manage the herd, and just deciding that a giant piece of land doesn’t need any big game harvest sets a scary precedent about big game management in the future. If the antis get ahold of that nugget of info (that it’s OK to just not hunt entire units) that gives them major weaponry against any and all claims that legal hunting is a management tool. Thin ice if you ask me. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie2012 Report post Posted December 21, 2021 17 minutes ago, Explorer said: Not anymore... I know. I was replying to your statement…….”I might be wrong but there are not even 65 antelope tags in any unit anymore”, showing at least this year, GMU10 did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Explorer Report post Posted December 21, 2021 12 hours ago, dentedr said: Private land rights should be upheld but… If the “conspiracy theories” are correct and they are closing it to prevent access and make it a “rich mans game” to charge extra money like the ORO ranch then I say horses**t!!!! And f that!!! The ORO has fired Chad Smith. The new manager is allowing a limited number of youth hunters on for free now. Not sure what all they are going to change. That being said the multi unit is the best example of game and fish and ranchers creating such a mess. The hunt started to reduce numbers in a area that historically did not have elk. And reduce impact on ranch land. Well, the Yavapai ranch is mainly the only ranch open. All others are locked down for the guides only. Allowing elk tags in 18b is dollar bills right in the pockets of the guide controlling the ORO. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lancetkenyon Report post Posted December 21, 2021 56 minutes ago, Explorer said: Checker boarding state land is a result of the railroad companies back in the day. Wonder how much it costs in signs to post such a large chunk of land. Most of the time, there are no fences to separate lands/post. So you better have OnX. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Explorer Report post Posted December 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, lancetkenyon said: Most of the time, there are no fences to separate lands/post. So you better have OnX. I was referring to the posting every 1/4 mile or legally you, I, them, they can cross. They can ask you to leave. For now.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sneaker Report post Posted December 21, 2021 25 minutes ago, Explorer said: The ORO has fired Chad Smith. The new manager is allowing a limited number of youth hunters on for free now. Not sure what all they are going to change. That being said the multi unit is the best example of game and fish and ranchers creating such a mess. The hunt started to reduce numbers in a area that historically did not have elk. And reduce impact on ranch land. Well, the Yavapai ranch is mainly the only ranch open. All others are locked down for the guides only. Allowing elk tags in 18b is dollar bills right in the pockets of the guide controlling the ORO. Yavapai Ranch and the Navajos were considering a purchase agreement. The Yavapai Ranch has been wanting to sell for a long time and end of last year or earlier this year they were trying to get their development agreements renewed with the county to move their sudivision plans forward again. I think it is only a matter of time until the access is gone. https://arizonabrief.com/navajo-nation-may-buy-yavapai-ranch-for-60m-possible-deal-would-sell-only-17500-acres/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Explorer Report post Posted December 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, Sneaker said: Yavapai Ranch and the Navajos were considering a purchase agreement. The Yavapai Ranch has been wanting to sell for a long time and end of last year or earlier this year they were trying to get their development agreements renewed with the county to move their sudivision plans forward again. I think it is only a matter of time until the access is gone. https://arizonabrief.com/navajo-nation-may-buy-yavapai-ranch-for-60m-possible-deal-would-sell-only-17500-acres/ County rejected them based on they left one plat out on the survey last I heard. It was in the prescott courier a month or so ago. Either way it's going to get developed. Land and water are bringing a flood of turds into this state. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigsky2 Report post Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/10/2021 at 3:38 PM, yotebuster said: It’s a slow but sure progression. I’m not for it, was just surprised it lasted as long as it did. The next thing coming down the pipe is private land tags. Those Indians are sitting on a few million a year in revenue for the elk and antelope they have and they will get that extracted, it’s just a matter of time. Again I’m not saying I’m for it or that it’s good by any means, was just exclaiming that I can’t believe it lasted as long as it did. I watched guys complain about the “greedy” owners because they had to pay $85 and couldn’t drive their side by side where ever they wanted. They were being so generous by allowing that access for free and for pay. You don’t even come close to scratching the surface of the cost of ownership of that land at $85 a person access fee even if you sell thousands. Wish we had some big ranches here in Montana that would be willing to give access for $85. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Explorer Report post Posted December 21, 2021 51 minutes ago, bigsky2 said: Wish we had some big ranches here in Montana that would be willing to give access for $85. I hope you guys are a decade or two behind us on hunting losses. It's a heck of alot cheaper for tags for residents and alot of over the counter. Wish it was not so cold up there or I would convince my lady to move. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SunDevil Report post Posted December 21, 2021 just apply in unit 9 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4huntrs Report post Posted December 22, 2021 16 hours ago, bigsky2 said: Wish we had some big ranches here in Montana that would be willing to give access for $85. Exactly my point. Don’t want to see Arizona become the pay to play system like so many other states. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZ513 Report post Posted December 27, 2021 How long until we find out what happens? I'm assuming there is a specific date that they have to come to an agreement or not by. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StickFlicker Report post Posted December 27, 2021 1 hour ago, AZ513 said: How long until we find out what happens? I'm assuming there is a specific date that they have to come to an agreement or not by. During the G&F meeting when they were discussing this, I believe that Amber Munig said they only had another week or two to work it out in time for them to finalize the permit numbers in the hunting regulations that needed to be sent to the printer. So, that date has now passed. I would think if G&F managed to save the hunts, we would have heard about it (so no news is bad news), but who knows. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdown Report post Posted December 27, 2021 My guess is negotiating better land deals, more tax payer maintenance equipment, better easement deals and and higher access fees....for land that is 50% or more public. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Explorer Report post Posted December 28, 2021 All ranchers are hurting financially. The meat processing facilities are down on employees due to Covid and they want to pay the ranchers pennies and charge us gold and silver. I would rather have them shut the gates and keep it old west instead of just selling it off to developers. And I'm not the biggest fan of cattle grazing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
