Saw this on Instagram...what’s your take?

[trophyseeker]

1 minute ago, AZBIG10 said:

I’m missing the arial survey #s. Or are these pretend too?

I thought you needed accurate info? Aerial surveys result in guess & by golly estimates. What good is mandatory reporting if you don't have accurate population figures, i.e. mandatory count of every head of game? Anything else is "garbage in," thus garbage out. 

[HuntHarder]

50 minutes ago, trophyseeker said:

I thought you needed accurate info? Aerial surveys result in guess & by golly estimates. What good is mandatory reporting if you don't have accurate population figures, i.e. mandatory count of every head of game? Anything else is "garbage in," thus garbage out. 

Yes and no...  Being able to spot trends with accurate harvest data is pretty important.  As of right now, we really have 0 idea of where archery hunters hunt on OTC tags.  Also, their archery rule of closing units relies on a 20% of total harvest for each unit.  Right now, their is no possible way to actually determine if a certain unit has hit the 20% threshold.  

I agree that knowing an actual count on the animals in a particular unit is important when it comes to management, but it is not an absolute.  Let's start with baby steps and require harvest reporting.  From there, we can evolve this into a more scientific way of actually MANAGING our wildlife.  

[Flatlander]

Anyone know what AZGFD decided today at the commission meeting?

[firstcoueswas80]

51 minutes ago, Flatlander said:

Anyone know what AZGFD decided today at the commission meeting?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say:

A. Whatever they wanted.

B. Whatever is best for them, NOT for wildlife.

[trophyseeker]

14 hours ago, HuntHarder said:

Yes and no...  Being able to spot trends with accurate harvest data is pretty important.  As of right now, we really have 0 idea of where archery hunters hunt on OTC tags.  Also, their archery rule of closing units relies on a 20% of total harvest for each unit.  Right now, their is no possible way to actually determine if a certain unit has hit the 20% threshold.  

I agree that knowing an actual count on the animals in a particular unit is important when it comes to management, but it is not an absolute.  Let's start with baby steps and require harvest reporting.  From there, we can evolve this into a more scientific way of actually MANAGING our wildlife.  

They are already able to spot trends. That's what they have been doing for decades with both the overall game counts & the random surveys -- both done with the obvious biases that come with each. Regardless how mandatory any report is, it will never be accurate. Some archery hunters who kill deer in their favorite units aren't likely to report them when they know it could end their hunting in those units. So when they get to 20% for a unit, it's likely much higher than that. That's why the random reporting is no less accurate when used through the various filters. 

Lastly, the 20% archery kill vs rifle kill has more to do with managing people, not animals. It doesn't matter whether it's an arrow or bullet that kills a deer when it comes to managing numbers. All that matters is the total harvest in any unit. 

[HuntHarder]

2 minutes ago, trophyseeker said:

They are already able to spot trends. That's what they have been doing for decades with both the overall game counts & the random surveys -- both done with the obvious biases that come with each. Regardless how mandatory any report is, it will never be accurate. Some archery hunters who kill deer in their favorite units aren't likely to report them when they know it could end their hunting in those units. So when they get to 20% for a unit, it's likely much higher than that. That's why the random reporting is no less accurate when used through the various filters. 

Lastly, the 20% archery kill vs rifle kill has more to do with managing people, not animals. It doesn't matter whether it's an arrow or bullet that kills a deer when it comes to managing numbers. All that matters is the total harvest in any unit. 

Nah... I will agree to disagree.  The vast majority of hunters will be truthful on their mandatory harvest reports, especially if there are repercussions if you are caught being untruthful.  

Your last statement actually makes most people's point about mandatory harvest reporting.  Of course all that matters is the total harvest.  RIght now, we literally have no idea how many animals are killed in each unit.   With Mandatory harvest, that actual number will be much clearer.  Only a few losers will lie on their harvest reports.  

[trophyseeker]

1 minute ago, HuntHarder said:

Nah... I will agree to disagree. 

Yup. 

[trphyhntr]

What would be the motivation to lie 

[AZBIG10]

57 minutes ago, trophyseeker said:

They are already able to spot trends. That's what they have been doing for decades with both the overall game counts & the random surveys -- both done with the obvious biases that come with each. Regardless how mandatory any report is, it will never be accurate. Some archery hunters who kill deer in their favorite units aren't likely to report them when they know it could end their hunting in those units. So when they get to 20% for a unit, it's likely much higher than that. That's why the random reporting is no less accurate when used through the various filters. 

Lastly, the 20% archery kill vs rifle kill has more to do with managing people, not animals. It doesn't matter whether it's an arrow or bullet that kills a deer when it comes to managing numbers. All that matters is the total harvest in any unit. 

If this mentality was remotely accurate how does unit 22 get shut down for bear quotas the first week every year? Ooph

[Flatlander]

1 hour ago, trphyhntr said:

What would be the motivation to lie 

That your unit shuts down earlier and that the success rate will look higher in reports. Pretty flimsy concerns if you ask me. And not any different than challenges with data we already rely on completely.

All mandatory reporting does is increase the sample size of data that already gets gathered.

[trophyseeker]

1 hour ago, AZBIG10 said:

If this mentality was remotely accurate how does unit 22 get shut down for bear quotas the first week every year? Ooph

Apple & oranges. All it takes is a couple of honest hunters reporting their female bear kills. And then there's this...

Hunters are also required to contact the Arizona Game & Fish Department on the website or by phone at the same number within 48 hours after taking a bear.  In addition, the hunter shall present the bears skull, hide, and attached proof of sex for inspection within 10 days of taking a bear.  If a hunter freezes the skull or hide before presenting it for inspection, the hunter shall prop the jaw open to allow access to the teeth and ensure that the attached proof of sex is identifiable and accessible.

 

[Beaton]

[Flatlander]

This is amazing.

[HuntHarder]

Great news

[654321]

19 hours ago, firstcoueswas80 said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say:

A. Whatever they wanted.

B. Whatever is best for them, NOT for wildlife.

Guess your limb just broke with you on it.