Unit 32

[bbrochu]

All,

For those of you who can not attend the meeting, please email me directly at bbrochu@azgfd.gov with areas where you would like access restored or areas where you feel access needs to be improved. If you can't make it to the meeting...no worries, you can still make a difference emailing me these areas and I will compile them on the same map that will be used for the public meeting. Thanks for your support and please spread the word so we can get a good idea of what people want.

 

Thanks again,

Ben Brochu

Wildlife Manager

Arizona Game and Fish Department

Office: (520) 229-3222

Email: bbrochu@azgfd.gov

[jandlp14]

First Post.

 

I don't want to start off by being a jerk, but try putting yourself in my family's shoes for a second. We have a large chunk of private land (cattle ranch) in Unit 31 and 32 (Klondyke). Public land is accessible through us, or by going WAY around us. We chose to lock our gates last year, and only let family and close friends in, most of them just stay on the private part of our operation. First rifle hunt last year, we let a few hunters in, people from "out of town", whom we didn't even know. A couple of days later, while checking water troughs, we discovered someone had used one of our water storage tanks as a target. Not just one hole, probably a dozen, all the way at the bottom. These holes were patched, 4000 gallons of water was pumped back up on the mesa, not an easy or cheap fix. Never again.

[AZLance]

So your accusing the "out of state" hunters of shooting up your water tanks??? Why not have them check in and leave their license # so you can send them a bill next time.

[Guest 300ultramag.]

ill be at the meeting.... maybe do some callin on the way in.

[audsley]

Azhunterswhocare is exactly right. The ranchers in Altar Valley seldom have such problems, and when they do, sportsmen and Game & Fish have been there to help remediate the damage. I know of cases where Safari Club Intl's Tucson chapter has quickly written checks to ranchers whe there has been damage that does not appear to have been caused by illegals but rather recreational users.

 

Although I don't have any research to prove it, common sense would suggest that a sign-in/sign-0ut box at the gate, installed by G&F at no cost to the landowner, should function as a deterrent to misbehavior. After someone hs written down their hunting license number, truck license, time and date they came in and went out, it's likely they'll get the idea that someone is keeping track of them.

 

Up to now, the simplest solution for a rancher is to lock a gate and deny access to the public even though members of the public have an equal right to access public lands once they've paid for any required permits. This is too easy, and it's wrong.

 

 

[Guest 300ultramag.]

ill be at the meeting.... maybe do some callin on the way in.

 

 

im gonna need an address

[jandlp14]

So your accusing the "out of state" hunters of shooting up your water tanks??? Why not have them check in and leave their license # so you can send them a bill next time.

 

 

Never said it was "out of state" hunters, I said "out of town", this would mean people whom I/we don't know, or have never seen before. Some of you from small towns know what I mean.

 

Do you think a "hunter" who would stoop so low as to shoot holes in a private water tank is going to take the time to sign in and out on a gate log??? I wish we had nothing to do but patrol our land, checking licence #'s and ID's, making sure everyone signed in. Probably wouldn't even need a gate log if that was the case. Unfortunately, there is work to be done, and a handful of people can't run a ranch and play "gate log enforcer" at the same time. I believe a gate log is a good idea for the responsible outdoorsmen/women who really just want to access the land for proper use, but as for the very small number of destructive idiots, thank them for the locked gates. You can usually spot them pretty easily, they are ususally the same individuals who throw beer cans out the window while they cruise down the road....."hunting".

 

BTW, we didn't deny anyone access to anything. We just made it a lot tougher to get to. The long way.

[audsley]

An access gate will usually be situated near a house. That does 2 things. It causes people to slow down for the stop so they aren't racing past the house raising a lot of dust and running over people or dogs, and it allows the occupants of the house to get a look at who's coming and going. That's the perfect place to put a sign-in/sign-out box.

 

I understand there isn't always someone home to watch and see that everyone has signed in, but those of us coming through the gate don't know when you're there and when you're not. It would be pretty stupid to go through the gate without signing in.

 

Game & Fish patrols these areas during hunts. If they write down a license number and later check it against the sign-in sheet, they can catch someone failing to sign in. Also, I believe most private property situations require tags to be hung from a truck mirror. Failure to sign in and get a tag when crossing private property is a trespassing violation subject to a fine levied by a judge. The Commission may also revoke your license, but I don't know whether that has ever actually been done for trespassing.

 

Public lands ranchers are often chided by anti-grazing activists for paying less per Animal-Unit-Month than is charged on nearby private lands. There are many reasons why public lands grazing does and should cost less, but one of the reasons is that the public lands lessee has to share the land with other users. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

I sympathize with some of the problems public lands ranchers are having, but some of this goes with the territory. Game & Fish and many sportsmen are trying to work with you on these problems. I suggest you be receptive to our efforts instead of just locking us out or shaking us down for cash.

[Guest 300ultramag.]

So your accusing the "out of state" hunters of shooting up your water tanks??? Why not have them check in and leave their license # so you can send them a bill next time.

 

 

Never said it was "out of state" hunters, I said "out of town", this would mean people whom I/we don't know, or have never seen before. Some of you from small towns know what I mean.

 

Do you think a "hunter" who would stoop so low as to shoot holes in a private water tank is going to take the time to sign in and out on a gate log??? I wish we had nothing to do but patrol our land, checking licence #'s and ID's, making sure everyone signed in. Probably wouldn't even need a gate log if that was the case. Unfortunately, there is work to be done, and a handful of people can't run a ranch and play "gate log enforcer" at the same time. I believe a gate log is a good idea for the responsible outdoorsmen/women who really just want to access the land for proper use, but as for the very small number of destructive idiots, thank them for the locked gates. You can usually spot them pretty easily, they are ususally the same individuals who throw beer cans out the window while they cruise down the road....."hunting".

 

BTW, we didn't deny anyone access to anything. We just made it a lot tougher to get to. The long way.

 

 

IMO u would make a better "gate log enforcer"....

[Guest 300ultramag.]

So your accusing the "out of state" hunters of shooting up your water tanks??? Why not have them check in and leave their license # so you can send them a bill next time.

 

 

Never said it was "out of state" hunters, I said "out of town", this would mean people whom I/we don't know, or have never seen before. Some of you from small towns know what I mean.

 

Do you think a "hunter" who would stoop so low as to shoot holes in a private water tank is going to take the time to sign in and out on a gate log??? I wish we had nothing to do but patrol our land, checking licence #'s and ID's, making sure everyone signed in. Probably wouldn't even need a gate log if that was the case. Unfortunately, there is work to be done, and a handful of people can't run a ranch and play "gate log enforcer" at the same time. I believe a gate log is a good idea for the responsible outdoorsmen/women who really just want to access the land for proper use, but as for the very small number of destructive idiots, thank them for the locked gates. You can usually spot them pretty easily, they are ususally the same individuals who throw beer cans out the window while they cruise down the road....."hunting".

 

BTW, we didn't deny anyone access to anything. We just made it a lot tougher to get to. The long way.

 

 

IMO u would make a better "gate log enforcer".... youll never catch a farm hand driving and throwing out beer cans never

 

[jandlp14]

Audsley-I appreciate your opinion. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the 31/32 area, particularly near Klondyke. Essentially, none of the "gate logs" are located near a house, usually landowners place an access gate a short distance from the main house/headquarters to cut down the amount of traffic zooming past the house, the gate log is placed at this gate. I've been hunting Coues deer and Mule deer in 31/32 for 30+ years, both on public and private land. I have never been checked by G&F. I've only seen them a couple times while hunting. I know they are understaffed, and can only do so much. I can't depend on them to patrol my property. I'm not discounting what they do, many of them are friends of mine, but they are given a monumentous task each year at this time.

 

I've said this twice, but I'll say it again--I'M NOT DENYING ANYONE ACCESS TO PUBLIC LAND!!!!!!!!

 

300ultramag--your maturity is evident in your reply. You are the reason people lock the gates. I'm a rancher, not a farmer. Pussy.

[SunDevil]

First Post.

 

I don't want to start off by being a jerk, but try putting yourself in my family's shoes for a second. We have a large chunk of private land (cattle ranch) in Unit 31 and 32 (Klondyke). Public land is accessible through us, or by going WAY around us. We chose to lock our gates last year, and only let family and close friends in, most of them just stay on the private part of our operation. First rifle hunt last year, we let a few hunters in, people from "out of town", whom we didn't even know. A couple of days later, while checking water troughs, we discovered someone had used one of our water storage tanks as a target. Not just one hole, probably a dozen, all the way at the bottom. These holes were patched, 4000 gallons of water was pumped back up on the mesa, not an easy or cheap fix. Never again.

 

was the storage tank on your private land or was it on public land?

 

the only reason I ask is that 'land locked' public property is a growing concern for people who enjoy the outdoors in AZ. some people get very, very upset when the encounter this growing problem. I in no means condone such behavior but it is possible that if the tanks that were vandalized were on public land the damage could possibly have been commited by someone who was ticked about having to go the "longer/tougher way" around to get.

 

now put yourself in the general public's shoes. you have been recreating in an area for years and years. there is a small portion of private property that you have to go through to access the vast amounts of public land that you love to recreate and probably have been doing so since you were a kid. well the ranch changes ownership and the new owner decides to lock the gate that runs through his little bit of private property. how right is this? unfortunately it falls on the burden of the state to take that land owner to court and prove to the court that the road existed before there was private property there. this is very difficult to prove and takes a lot of resources that typically the government is not willing to expend.

 

now throw into the mix that this rancher allows certain friends or family members (or outfitters who have paid him on behalf of his wealthy clients a fee) to have access through his property. now imagine that you think a locked gate means a locked gate and you still want to recreate in your honey hole so you get up well before light and start walking in only to get passed on the road by people who have been given the key. this is our reality and there are a lot of people out there who get bitter about these type of things.

[COUESAZ]

Audsley-I appreciate your opinion. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the 31/32 area, particularly near Klondyke. Essentially, none of the "gate logs" are located near a house, usually landowners place an access gate a short distance from the main house/headquarters to cut down the amount of traffic zooming past the house, the gate log is placed at this gate. I've been hunting Coues deer and Mule deer in 31/32 for 30+ years, both on public and private land. I have never been checked by G&F. I've only seen them a couple times while hunting. I know they are understaffed, and can only do so much. I can't depend on them to patrol my property. I'm not discounting what they do, many of them are friends of mine, but they are given a monumentous task each year at this time.

 

I've said this twice, but I'll say it again--I'M NOT DENYING ANYONE ACCESS TO PUBLIC LAND!!!!!!!!

 

300ultramag--your maturity is evident in your reply. You are the reason people lock the gates. I'm a rancher, not a farmer. Pussy.

 

 

Well the last word in your post was very grown up as well.

 

I understand why you lock your gates. I was raised right in the middle of 32,34,30b area. and have seen most sreas worth hunting closed down do to hunters as well as ranchers. The ranch i hunt in unit 34B is locked off as well. you have to call the rancher and he will give you the combo to the gate. This is done after he takes the info he needs before you cross the cattle gaurd. It is not always sportsman shooting tanks either. I have seen a 2 wheel drive truck drive into an area shoot up a tank and drop the gate to the ground and drive off. They drove right out of the ranch and on to the highway.I later gave the discription of the truck to the game warden. He said yep that is the same truck the rancher identafied in the ranch down the highway. They caught them and they were not even hunters. just out to cause problems.

[Guest 300ultramag.]

Audsley-I appreciate your opinion. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the 31/32 area, particularly near Klondyke. Essentially, none of the "gate logs" are located near a house, usually landowners place an access gate a short distance from the main house/headquarters to cut down the amount of traffic zooming past the house, the gate log is placed at this gate. I've been hunting Coues deer and Mule deer in 31/32 for 30+ years, both on public and private land. I have never been checked by G&F. I've only seen them a couple times while hunting. I know they are understaffed, and can only do so much. I can't depend on them to patrol my property. I'm not discounting what they do, many of them are friends of mine, but they are given a monumentous task each year at this time.

 

I've said this twice, but I'll say it again--I'M NOT DENYING ANYONE ACCESS TO PUBLIC LAND!!!!!!!!

 

300ultramag--your maturity is evident in your reply. You are the reason people lock the gates. I'm a rancher, a farmer and a Pussy.

 

 

People lock gates for self serving reasons, smart guy! Bottom Line..

 

[25-06]

Audsley-I appreciate your opinion. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the 31/32 area, particularly near Klondyke. Essentially, none of the "gate logs" are located near a house, usually landowners place an access gate a short distance from the main house/headquarters to cut down the amount of traffic zooming past the house, the gate log is placed at this gate. I've been hunting Coues deer and Mule deer in 31/32 for 30+ years, both on public and private land. I have never been checked by G&F. I've only seen them a couple times while hunting. I know they are understaffed, and can only do so much. I can't depend on them to patrol my property. I'm not discounting what they do, many of them are friends of mine, but they are given a monumentous task each year at this time.

 

I've said this twice, but I'll say it again--I'M NOT DENYING ANYONE ACCESS TO PUBLIC LAND!!!!!!!!

 

300ultramag--your maturity is evident in your reply. You are the reason people lock the gates. I'm a rancher, not a farmer. Pussy.

 

 

Well the last word in your post was very grown up as well.

 

I understand why you lock your gates. I was raised right in the middle of 32,34,30b area. and have seen most sreas worth hunting closed down do to hunters as well as ranchers. The ranch i hunt in unit 34B is locked off as well. you have to call the rancher and he will give you the combo to the gate. This is done after he takes the info he needs before you cross the cattle gaurd. It is not always sportsman shooting tanks either. I have seen a 2 wheel drive truck drive into an area shoot up a tank and drop the gate to the ground and drive off. They drove right out of the ranch and on to the highway.I later gave the discription of the truck to the game warden. He said yep that is the same truck the rancher identafied in the ranch down the highway. They caught them and they were not even hunters. just out to cause problems.

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