Same Sex Marriage

[Snapshot]

For those that believe in the bible. Did God create an Adam & Adam, or an Eve & Eve? God created Adam & Eve, each with a different set of organs to procreate. I think if God intended homosexuality then we all would have been given the ability to procreate A-Sexually, or given two sets of sexual organs 1-male, 1-female.

I don't hate homosexuals, I just don't want anything to do with them. Of all the gay people I have met, they all seem to be mentally unstable.

[.270]

hey, i've been called mentally unstable. and by real doctors too. and goofy, and ignernt, and on and on. i know what ya mean there tho. i prefer differnt kinda company myself. Lark.

[Noel Arnold]

Lark,

You must not be to loco.After all you do shoot the best non-magnum caliber rifle ever built

[DesertBull]

Lark, I'll bet those those funny fellas shoot a 7/08 huh?

[.270]

i've always wanted to say that, but was afraid it wernt p'litically correct enough. Lark.

[Kaffer62]

When in Rome.

[mr.smith]

First off. No I'm not gay. I do have family members who are and believe it or not I still love them.

The point of this thread was that homosexual marraige is bad for our society. ... No one here hates homosexuals. Chances are we all have homosexual friends.

Saying they are going to destroy society seems pretty darned hateful.

 

 

Mr. Smith got pretty exited (maybe even angry?) because he percieved we were bashing a group of people that don't think the way the majority of contributers to this string think. Remember, we weren't bashing homo's, we were discussing the challenges to society. What I find interesting is that is is usually the homosexual people that become irrate in these discussions.

Not angry and not gay. I find it funny that you would beat around calling me an angry homo though. Why not just straight up accuse?

 

 

And I am considered intolerant - inherently by what I believe!?

By assuming that your way is absolutely right and theirs is absolutely wrong. Just the same as I am being accused of being the same bigot I accuse others of being just because I deny that Christianity is absolutely right.

 

It is you God-given right to choose your own belief system Mr. Smith, it just concerns me that you became so upset.

By the way, you can look at my profile and see who I am and what I stand for. By looking at your profile, all I can see is that you are an anomynous dart thrower.

Mike

Again I didn't get upset. I just point out what I believe are flaws in logic. Homosexuals are not going to destroy society. Married heterosexuals are not going to rush out and get divorces because marriage is no longer exclusively thiers.

 

Rembrant; if you want to know who I am it isn't hard to find out. It's Mr.Smith on almost all of the AZ forums. Check out AZSJ I have over 3K posts. I like to stir the pot a bit and try to raise awareness. I know I won't change anybodies mind but it's fun to get people all riled up. If you are going to call me names at least be starightforward about it or don't do it at all. Otherwise a nice civil discussion.

 

One last note. I found this website hilarious. I'm sure most of you will love it. Prop 102

 

[mr.smith]

This is even funnier. Couldn't get more fake.

 

http://www.prop102.com/prop102_gay_marriage_poll.html

 

Also check out their link to the westboro church. I got a good laugh out of that one too.

[JHAM357]

mr.smith

sorry most of us believe whole heartedly in what we believe, leaving no doubt we could be wrong, thats what the bible tells us to do and thats how we live. i admit i am closed minded and stick to my faith, i have studied others in college(prolly not as indepth as you) and on my own, my step dad is muslim, he's a great guy and we debate all the time. does he believe i am wrong in ways of course, do i believe he is wrong in ways of course. the thing about believing is not to believe half way or choose different religous views and society views tha suit me the best and combine them all. i will listen to any body and what they have to say. me disregarding your views is the same as you disregarding mine.

[mr.smith]

mr.smith

sorry most of us believe whole heartedly in what we believe, leaving no doubt we could be wrong, thats what the bible tells us to do and thats how we live. i admit i am closed minded and stick to my faith, i have studied others in college(prolly not as indepth as you) and on my own, my step dad is muslim, he's a great guy and we debate all the time. does he believe i am wrong in ways of course, do i believe he is wrong in ways of course. the thing about believing is not to believe half way or choose different religous views and society views tha suit me the best and combine them all. i will listen to any body and what they have to say. me disregarding your views is the same as you disregarding mine.

I don't disregard your views. I generally respect religious people and their beliefs. Hence I type Christianity with a capital C and God with a capital G. For the most part religious folks are a pretty good group of people and honestly I would rather be surrounded by churchies than druggie hedonists any day. Who wouldn't? I applaud you all for having the courage of your convictions. A lot of people are only religious when it is convenient. To me that is worse than being completely religious or completely non-religious. I don't hate or dispise God or the concept of God. Doing so would be admitting existence. I do believe Jesus lived and may have been a great teacher/philosopher, just minus all the miracles and divinity. Kind of the Jefferson Bible approach. Thomas Jefferson took his bible and eliminated all the miracles and supernatural stuff and found it to be a great story of morality and guidlines for life. Google it; "Jefferson Bible" Here I've done it for you; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

 

This discussion has been fun. But as mentioned previously nobody is going to change anybodies mind. My intended purpose was to point out that the constitution should not be used to deny rights. However, this topic cannot be separated from it's theological background.

 

Lastly; JHAM, isn't it fun having a family member with opposing views? I debate evolution with my catholic father in law all the time. It's a hoot.

[WHT_MTNMAN]

I read most of this and since I have a minor in Religious studies I must be qualifed to answer, but I won't, I just found this part of Stanely's post funny.

If we all start to be gay this sure won't be an issue.

The fall of America as we know it now????? To me, that's funny!

 

I suppose that when women were given the right to vote that many folks figured it was the fall of America as they knew it.... I also suppose that when black people were given the right to sit on any seat, as opposed to the back of the bus, that some folks likely figured that it was the fall of America as they knew it to....

 

Here's my take; Gay marriage? Do I support it? Well, I haven't been to any gay weddings so I guess I haven't yet. Do I think it's wrong for a couple of guys to get married? Not sure..... Do I care if they say their married? Definitely not... Doesn't affect me personally in the least....

 

"The fall of America as we know it?" How about the current debt & financial crisis that the government is dealing with? Bailing HUGE companys out of their mess with our tax money (money we don't have, by the way.....)! To me, that is a MUCH MUCH MUCH more pressing issue than if a couple of guys/girls want to get married to each other. How about how our children & grandchildren are going to deal with this debt mess???? How about how strong America is financially in the next 100 years & how we retain our position in the world so our offspring can prosper as we have? Again, to me these are MUCH more pressing issues!

 

Freedom & choice are what has made this country great IMO. Not government control over what folks do in the privacy of their own homes....

 

My $.02....

 

S.

 

 

PS: I sure hope Amanda gets a chance at a big elk!!!! She's been working VERY hard at it!

 

[KGAINES]

This argument isn't going to die, ever. Can someone truly explain how it is OK to be gay, I don't think so, it is a choice that an individual makes for whatever reason and the problem is that over time we keep being forced to accept it as the norm until eventually it is. The problem I have is that I don't believe anyone is born gay and therefore that makes it a choice, I believe in the bible and God and I made the choice to believe it is wrong to make that choice. I have never had a problem with anyone that is gay, and have never condemned them, but let you say that you don't believe in what they are doing to their face and see who is condemned. You know even if you believe in evolution you can't believe that being gay is OK, it makes no evolutionary sense for a species to be gay that needs a male and a female to procreate. Where is the line drawn, this time we are being forced to accept being gay, what will be accepted in the next fifty years, I hope to God it isn't pedophiles, I mean if you ask them they were born that way and we sure as heck don't want to be a bigot and not accept them. I think murderers and rapists would claim to be born that way and God help us we can't allow them to be the victims of bigotry.

They can do what they want and it will affect me very little, it will affect my kids more, and their kids even more, but I can teach them what is right and wrong and hopefully that will be enough. Until I am isolated and persecuted for being a Christian or for raising my kids to be Christians they can do what they want, they can be married and recognized by the state or the country, but not by God.

I do have people that I hate, I freaking hate pedophiles and rapists, I hate people that give me a good reason to hate them. I don't hate homosexuals, I just don't believe in their choice, but if they happen to be a pedophile or a rapists then yes I hate them too, and that includes the dang priests that molests kids.

 

 

 

 

 

[muskrat]

Topics like this make me squeamish. I'm going to try and explain, knowing ahead of time that I won't do a very good job, and probably should not have bothered piping up.

 

First let me say that personally, I am against homosexuality in that I think the ideal is a man and a woman. I do believe that is what God and nature had in mind. I bristle when I feel like the gay "movement" tries to make me think it is OK. That "they" insist on bombarding the general public with tv shows, commercials, songs, etc., bent on making it "acceptable". We don't get that from people who live other "alternate lifestyles" so what's up with that?

 

That being said, I know lots and lots of people, who claim to be Christian, just as fervently as many of you do. Many of these folks are on marriage number 2 or number 3. I think there is something wrong with a system that won't allow a "partner" be with their loved one of 20+ years in their final hours, because someone doesn't consider them a "real" next of kin. The guy in the next room can get in and see his wife though, even if he just came from his girlfriend's house.

 

Being raised a Christian, and still consider myself to be one, it is my understanding that all mortal men sin. Did someone along the way rank sins in order to decide that the sin of homosexuality is worse than say, the sin of gluttony, or taking the Lord's name in vain? Or coveting thy neighbor? If we are indeed all guilty, why are we not on message boards like these voicing our concerns regarding *all* sin? We are not proudly proclaiming our faith and pointing out that each of us, though not necessarily homosexual, has our own list to contend with, someday.

 

A lot of folks defend their position well, and are obviously proud and steadfast in their faith, and rightly so. I see mr. smith's point though - some of you, in making your arguments, just don't sound loving and tolerant. WWJD is a cliche that is used pretty flippantly if you ask me. I do wonder though, how He would look upon a couple that, although sinning in the technical, Old testament, biblical sense - loved each other. And were kind, and giving and tolerant. I just, honestly, don't know any more.

 

I didn't make my points well, and am tempted to hit the "delete" button, rather than the "post" button - but I've spent too much time typing this out. I know many of you will misunderstand what I was trying to say; some may get indignant; some will craft well thought out responses based on the principles of your faith, and probably - denomination. I may not reply as frankly I am not equipped to pose a Biblical debate on this matter. My response was not meant to be a long rambling version of "He who is without sin cast the first stone", nor "Judge not, lest ye be judged". The point bouncing around in my brain was more than that. Maybe it's the fact that the thread "feels" like we are attacking a group that, as far as I know, isn't here to defend themselves. Maybe it is the proclamation of Christianity as the final argument, knowing that none of us is qualified to judge another. Maybe it's because although for many - "because God says so" is abundantly clear and simple; but I know that exact same phrase is why my relatives spent decades killing Christian Catholics in Northern Ireland; or why the Spanish Inquisition came about; or why Baptists don't agree with Mormons who don't agree with Pentecosts who don't agree with Presbyterians, who don't agree with Episcopalians. All of those denominations KNOW they are right, and the others are wrong. Maybe what bothers me is that I agree in principle with the end argument, but the details are being over simplified. I just don't know...

[mr.smith]

Good post Marshall. I feel I need to clarify something. I do not condone homosexuality. However I will argue in favor of freedom every time, regardless of who I am arguing for. If Christians freedoms were under attack I would argue for them too. It doesn't matter.

 

[bobbyo]

Wow, I thought I was in the 1950s until I looked at my calendar. I have too much too say right now, but just an observation. Remember those incidents a couple years ago of the congress men and preachers who were so against gayness. Remember how disgusted they were with gay that they had to try it out for themselves just to see what made them so mad about homosexuality. I just have to say, if you are really, I mean really, bothered by homosexuality you might want to check how wide your stance is when you urinate.

Bob