Doe hunts????

[Crazymonkey]

My asking about doe hunts was based off observation and several articles written by several biologists .there are several articles about the benefits.just a look on the web will show them I just looked up the benefits of a balanced deer heard plain and simple .I absolutely get we need doe to provide deer but without enough bucks the doe will not get bread.my questioning some of the respondents was to clarify the issues biased on what is written by several biologists not to defend my thoughts on the subject until people started questioning my abilities and what I might be smoking.I try to look at things as a whole and try to read and learn about things I've got questions about there are always different opinions that's just a fact .we've been killing bucks for as long as I can remember been way to long and the number of bucks isn't getting any better .there are plenty of reasons and very few answers just wondering if a better balance would help that's all .

[Swivelhead]

Removing does is ALWAYS about limiting/reducing the size of a population, not the buck/doe ratio.

[Allforelk]

7 minutes ago, Crazymonkey said:

My asking about doe hunts was based off observation and several articles written by several biologists .there are several articles about the benefits.just a look on the web will show them I just looked up the benefits of a balanced deer heard plain and simple 

We’re these articles tailored to property management regarding Eastern Whitetails specifically by chance?

[Crazymonkey]

1 hour ago, NOTAGS said:

For a guy who’s working 76 hours plus a week,  seems to have a lot of time for CWT.. must have a personal assistant.

Nope I'm a machinist and have a lot of time when making parts for all the things you drive in ,fly in,or just blow sh*t up.my day starts at 1 am and ends at 3 pm when I get home.sometime I just have way to much time between parts and just get bored.that leads to a lot of reading on subjects and usually a lot of questions.

[Crazymonkey]

The articles were tailored to balanced and healthy heards.some were based on the mid west and others are just general .

[dusty]

Just a suggestion, solution.

[Big or Bust]

47 minutes ago, Crazymonkey said:

My asking about doe hunts was based off observation and several articles written by several biologists .there are several articles about the benefits.just a look on the web will show them I just looked up the benefits of a balanced deer heard plain and simple .I absolutely get we need doe to provide deer but without enough bucks the doe will not get bread.my questioning some of the respondents was to clarify the issues biased on what is written by several biologists not to defend my thoughts on the subject until people started questioning my abilities and what I might be smoking.I try to look at things as a whole and try to read and learn about things I've got questions about there are always different opinions that's just a fact .we've been killing bucks for as long as I can remember been way to long and the number of bucks isn't getting any better .there are plenty of reasons and very few answers just wondering if a better balance would help that's all .

Where did the article cite the deer herd they were discussing?

[CouesFanatic]

1 hour ago, Crazymonkey said:

The articles were tailored to balanced and healthy heards.some were based on the mid west and others are just general .

We don't have the population to worry about balancing out the ratio. We have a not enough deer per mile problem, thus the kickback from people about killing does. Places like the eastern US where whitetails are like cockroaches need some ratio balancing. All ratio balancing would do here is decrease our low population even further. 

[Crazymonkey]

7 hours ago, CouesFanatic said:

We don't have the population to worry about balancing out the ratio. We have a not enough deer per mile problem, thus the kickback from people about killing does. Places like the eastern US where whitetails are like cockroaches need some ratio balancing. All ratio balancing would do here is decrease our low population even further. 

I'm just looking for different solutions to help the deer out.this was one that came up .I absolutely believe we need to do something and like many ideas that were brought up about mandatory reporting there was one about antler size restrictions to help with age class that would give young bucks time to breed.cutting the otc tags for non rez hunters and rez hunters came up and also just cutting the tags for awhile would bring up the numbers. Most hunters are on board with some or all of these things.no matter what some will only complain about not getting tags and such but if we don't look for things to help the problem it won't go away.fish and game's approach is from a dollar standpoint with all the crazy numbers of tags in some units and the stacked hunts one on top of the other .if we don't come up with solutions we won't have any deer to hunt .

[OpticNerd]

How about a predator bonus point. You shoot a lion you get a extra BP. You kill 10 coyote you get an extra BP. 

[missedagain]

12 minutes ago, OpticNerd said:

How about a predator bonus point. You shoot a lion you get a extra BP. You kill 10 coyote you get an extra BP. 

Our Game and Fish is only interested in solutions that provide them additional revenue. 

[CouesFanatic]

13 hours ago, Crazymonkey said:

I'm just looking for different solutions to help the deer out.this was one that came up .I absolutely believe we need to do something and like many ideas that were brought up about mandatory reporting there was one about antler size restrictions to help with age class that would give young bucks time to breed.cutting the otc tags for non rez hunters and rez hunters came up and also just cutting the tags for awhile would bring up the numbers. Most hunters are on board with some or all of these things.no matter what some will only complain about not getting tags and such but if we don't look for things to help the problem it won't go away.fish and game's approach is from a dollar standpoint with all the crazy numbers of tags in some units and the stacked hunts one on top of the other .if we don't come up with solutions we won't have any deer to hunt .

Missedagain is correct. The Game and fish is chosing to sell a lot of tags which creates a low deer density because it gives them more revenue. They do make wise choices at times when certain fires or other things cause severe issues. I think you are missing the point that the game and fish feels the numbers are fine due to the revenue gained from tag levels. More deer and less money is not what they are seeking. 

Everyone loves finding a buck or bull with tons of mass and long points. The older I get the more I care about actually going and not sitting at home or work. Seeing elk hunts that used to be drawn every 3-4 years that are now every 10-12 years just sucks. In 10 years those hunts will take 18-20 years to draw. The OTC hunts are disappearing. Leftover tags will be gone in a year or two. The future in Arizona is going to be less and less opportunity for everyone due to human population growth. I'd rather see habitat improvement especially water encatchment work. More prime habitat=more deer as long as we don't kill them all. The issue we have going forward is a limited resource for a quickly growing human population. Trophy quality is the last thing on the Game and Fish's mind. 

[Crazymonkey]

It seems we are kinda in a bad spot on the tag reduction end because if you cut tags it would lead to less revenue and that would lead to less improvements .the only way to cut tags and still hold the same revenues would be to increase tag cost and that might lead to pricing people out of hunting.I did like the predator point idea but like all things we still need some predators in the mix.it looks like at the very least its got people thinking my thinking may not fit for this environment but there have been several good ideas.some have said I'm just trying to get someone to agree with me and that's not the case the point was to get opinions and thoughts and make people think about some solutions and some have.

[trphyhntr]

Let this thread die,

[savagman]

On 9/30/2021 at 8:13 AM, OpticNerd said:

How about a predator bonus point. You shoot a lion you get a extra BP. You kill 10 coyote you get an extra BP. 

This is more along the lines of what I was thinking.  Predators killing deer.  Not sure the accurate number a lion eats in a year but each doe killed takes out potentially three deer.