NOTAGS Report post Posted September 23, 2021 My comment for regarding adopting CO regs for muzzleloader would include no scopes. That would put the high dollar, dial it in,” primitive” weapons out of the picture if the hunter has any ethics. Based upon a 715 yard shot with a muzzleloader and a video for the public to view and copy I doubt whoever was on that has any. I won’t shoot that far with a centerfire. What happened to hunting, rather than shooting? pretty much why we will be only looking at draw hunts, including archery deer ( Where everyone calls out either x bows or non trad for for techno advantages) following the archery pig going to draw only Then will be the HAM hunts where people call out each other for AR pistols with braces and long range muzzleloader, which will be lumped into the general hunts.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oz31p Report post Posted September 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, NOTAGS said: My comment for regarding adopting CO regs for muzzleloader would include no scopes. That would put the high dollar, dial it in,” primitive” weapons out of the picture if the hunter has any ethics. Based upon a 715 yard shot with a muzzleloader and a video for the public to view and copy I doubt whoever was on that has any. I won’t shoot that far with a centerfire. What happened to hunting, rather than shooting? pretty much why we will be only looking at draw hunts, including archery deer ( Where everyone calls out either x bows or non trad for for techno advantages) following the archery pig going to draw only Then will be the HAM hunts where people call out each other for AR pistols with braces and long range muzzleloader, which will be lumped into the general hunts.. Huh?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trphyhntr Report post Posted September 23, 2021 3 hours ago, idgaf said: I'm in on the Atlatl. There needs to be a season. Easy money for g&f and real hunters could show their stuff. Killing Javelina real hunters pick one 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazymonkey Report post Posted September 23, 2021 5 hours ago, NOTAGS said: My comment for regarding adopting CO regs for muzzleloader would include no scopes. That would put the high dollar, dial it in,” primitive” weapons out of the picture if the hunter has any ethics. Based upon a 715 yard shot with a muzzleloader and a video for the public to view and copy I doubt whoever was on that has any. I won’t shoot that far with a centerfire. What happened to hunting, rather than shooting? pretty much why we will be only looking at draw hunts, including archery deer ( Where everyone calls out either x bows or non trad for for techno advantages) following the archery pig going to draw only Then will be the HAM hunts where people call out each other for AR pistols with braces and long range muzzleloader, which will be lumped into the general hunts.. If you only knew how many animals get shot poorly during the hunts you wish we had it might change your perspective.I guy shoots at a elk in Colorado with a muzzleloader no scope no sabot and so on per the regs at say 100 yards and makes a bad hit because he is regulated to no scope .the animals will die but slowly and probably not be recovered.he will probably just keep on hunting .you are looking at it from the wrong angle its about making clean ethical shots and yes scopes help do that.if you truly want to remove scopes I say what about your rifle scope or your bow sights how about a compound bow it gives you an advantage where would you stop.you don't get that all the things we use to hunt including our heads give us an advantage to some degree.if you wish to take from one what about all the other stuff that gives the perspective of having given an advantage camo sent free range finders GPS binos ground blinds tree stands and so on .you need to get off you high horse and look at how you hunt and take all of the things that you use to make you a better hunter and throw them in the trash .then you can truly preach about not having an advantage .for most its about making a clean 1 shot kill and not having the animal suffer needlessly .sounds like you should give all the things you say are unfair a try and see how much skill it takes .its easy to cry about stuff if you have no clue about it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuntHarder Report post Posted September 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Crazymonkey said: If you only knew how many animals get shot poorly during the hunts you wish we had it might change your perspective.I guy shoots at a elk in Colorado with a muzzleloader no scope no sabot and so on per the regs at say 100 yards and makes a bad hit because he is regulated to no scope .the animals will die but slowly and probably not be recovered.he will probably just keep on hunting .you are looking at it from the wrong angle its about making clean ethical shots and yes scopes help do that.if you truly want to remove scopes I say what about your rifle scope or your bow sights how about a compound bow it gives you an advantage where would you stop.you don't get that all the things we use to hunt including our heads give us an advantage to some degree.if you wish to take from one what about all the other stuff that gives the perspective of having given an advantage camo sent free range finders GPS binos ground blinds tree stands and so on .you need to get off you high horse and look at how you hunt and take all of the things that you use to make you a better hunter and throw them in the trash .then you can truly preach about not having an advantage .for most its about making a clean 1 shot kill and not having the animal suffer needlessly .sounds like you should give all the things you say are unfair a try and see how much skill it takes .its easy to cry about stuff if you have no clue about it. Its a muzzleloader season for a reason.... It is supposed to be harder than a rifle hunt, so they typically would put them at better times of the year with less tags. With modern mler's, the effective range is really no different than a rifle in most guys hands. Im ok with mlers that shoot 700 yards if its during a rifle hunt. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZBIG10 Report post Posted September 23, 2021 1 minute ago, dsotm said: Or people that can actually hunt and shoot. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazymonkey Report post Posted September 23, 2021 What gets me is the crying about an unfair advantage.and the Colorado muzzleloader regs .if you read the regs it's listed as a primitive weapon hunt ours is not its listed as a muzzleloader hunt .most are hunting with muzzleloaders from cva knight and traditions the guns are good to 2 maybe 3 hundred if you dare .the assumption that guys are running super high dollar guns and glass is unfounded .the gunworks muzzy is 11thousand dollars I'm sure some will spend that but most will not .the common gripe is its smokeless and again its not legal to run during muzzy hunts .have you or any one who complains about it not being fair even tried to shoot what you see as not fair .I've offered to let some give it a try it takes unreal skill and luck .the muzzy is available for you to give it a try 700 yds on target the size of the game you wish to take.I've got a better than most will run paramount pro with Nightforce glass and a break .not a common muzzy for most hunters .I say if you think its easy try and hit a target that far Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idgaf Report post Posted September 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Crazymonkey said: If you only knew how many animals get shot poorly during the hunts you wish we had it might change your perspective.I guy shoots at a elk in Colorado with a muzzleloader no scope no sabot and so on per the regs at say 100 yards and makes a bad hit because he is regulated to no scope .the animals will die but slowly and probably not be recovered.he will probably just keep on hunting .you are looking at it from the wrong angle its about making clean ethical shots and yes scopes help do that.if you truly want to remove scopes I say what about your rifle scope or your bow sights how about a compound bow it gives you an advantage where would you stop.you don't get that all the things we use to hunt including our heads give us an advantage to some degree.if you wish to take from one what about all the other stuff that gives the perspective of having given an advantage camo sent free range finders GPS binos ground blinds tree stands and so on .you need to get off you high horse and look at how you hunt and take all of the things that you use to make you a better hunter and throw them in the trash .then you can truly preach about not having an advantage .for most its about making a clean 1 shot kill and not having the animal suffer needlessly .sounds like you should give all the things you say are unfair a try and see how much skill it takes .its easy to cry about stuff if you have no clue about it. I would contend the wound ratio is less than a hunt where people are shooting 250 yards at animals. Technology has taken alot of the skill out of hunting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NOTAGS Report post Posted September 23, 2021 My comment was merely that separate hunts for “ primitive weapons” will likely go away and be lumped into the general hunts if people keep pushing the effectiveness of them and increase the harvest numbers. I don’t sit on a high horse or judge anyone for how they hunt, I just don’t want to see the options for separate seasons disappear . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazymonkey Report post Posted September 23, 2021 Technology has helped with good ethics and shot placement.your scoped rifle has modern tec.its scoped .skill is skill it takes a lot of time money and practice to utilize the tec and have the skills to shoot far the tv shows make it look easy .I can assure you a lot goes into it .every ounce of equipment we use gives us an advantage until you have an understanding of how it works and have tried to use it I don't think anyone should have a comment on what's fair. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZBIG10 Report post Posted September 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, Crazymonkey said: What gets me is the crying about an unfair advantage.and the Colorado muzzleloader regs .if you read the regs it's listed as a primitive weapon hunt ours is not its listed as a muzzleloader hunt .most are hunting with muzzleloaders from cva knight and traditions the guns are good to 2 maybe 3 hundred if you dare .the assumption that guys are running super high dollar guns and glass is unfounded .the gunworks muzzy is 11thousand dollars I'm sure some will spend that but most will not .the common gripe is its smokeless and again its not legal to run during muzzy hunts .have you or any one who complains about it not being fair even tried to shoot what you see as not fair .I've offered to let some give it a try it takes unreal skill and luck .the muzzy is available for you to give it a try 700 yds on target the size of the game you wish to take.I've got a better than most will run paramount pro with Nightforce glass and a break .not a common muzzy for most hunters .I say if you think its easy try and hit a target that far Tbh I have zero experience shooting a high end ML. But. I can out shoot my younger brother any day of the week and this guy shot a giant at an insane distance. So for that. I’m out 🤣 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NOTAGS Report post Posted September 23, 2021 21 minutes ago, Crazymonkey said: What gets me is the crying about an unfair advantage.and the Colorado muzzleloader regs .if you read the regs it's listed as a primitive weapon hunt ours is not its listed as a muzzleloader hunt .most are hunting with muzzleloaders from cva knight and traditions the guns are good to 2 maybe 3 hundred if you dare .the assumption that guys are running super high dollar guns and glass is unfounded .the gunworks muzzy is 11thousand dollars I'm sure some will spend that but most will not .the common gripe is its smokeless and again its not legal to run during muzzy hunts .have you or any one who complains about it not being fair even tried to shoot what you see as not fair .I've offered to let some give it a try it takes unreal skill and luck .the muzzy is available for you to give it a try 700 yds on target the size of the game you wish to take.I've got a better than most will run paramount pro with Nightforce glass and a break .not a common muzzy for most hunters .I say if you think its easy try and hit a target that far Do you really think a 700 yard rifle was envisioned whenAZ came out with the first muzzleloader hunt? When they were established, I doubt inlines even existed . I’m pretty sure a muzzleloader was considered a primitive weapon when they were. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazymonkey Report post Posted September 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, NOTAGS said: My comment was merely that separate hunts for “ primitive weapons” will likely go away and be lumped into the general hunts if people keep pushing the effectiveness of them and increase the harvest numbers. I don’t sit on a high horse or judge anyone for how they hunt, I just don’t want to see the options for separate seasons disappear . We do not have a primitive weapon hunt .its a muzzleloader hunt .I don't wish to see any season end but I also don't like when people complain about fairness with out trying to do what they say is not fair.I don't care what your method may be if your proficient and can make a ethical kill .I can tell you first hand money is no substitute for time and skill .I'm new to long range shooting and I thought good gun good glass no problem.its way harder than that its load development and trigger control and then you have the environment .remember all we have as hunters gives us an advantage and still we come home empty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazymonkey Report post Posted September 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, NOTAGS said: Do you really think a 700 yard rifle was envisioned whenAZ came out with the first muzzleloader hunt? When they were established, I doubt inlines even existed . I’m pretty sure a muzzleloader was considered a primitive weapon when they were. Do you think they had your scoped rifle your rangefinder your GPS ground blind and camo. Bows with sights crossbows or any other thing that you use to gain an advantage in mind .since the dawn of time the first hunters and all hunters use something to gain an advantage over what ever we hunt.I say if you cry about not fair get rid of all the stuff you use to hunt and then give it a try just you and the animal.that would be truly fair.no camo gun range finders bow and so on .just you and your prey.if you can't do that then you probably have no place to complain about others and what's fair. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites