Elk Arrows. KE/Momentum

[1uofacat]

On 8/17/2021 at 1:14 PM, yotebuster said:

I agree in theory but not in practice.  The level of tune you need to throw those big long broadheads straight is beyond what most people’s shooting ability.  I shoot a 500 grain arrow but my groups open up substantially with any fixed head ive tried, especially in wind.  I don’t buy the whole single bevel “breaking” bone thing and I absolutely don’t want front end steering on my arrow (which is what a single bevel does).  I think Ashby’s research is so focused on shooting African crap at 12 yards on a hay pile they forget that you also need to be able to hit things at reasonable hunting distances.  I would agree that my bow would kill best with a 325gr single bevel head and a 800 gr areow at 15 yards, but if I’ve got that shot, it will do just fine with my 500 gr VAP and a rage.  

Sounds like your tuning issues weren't fully addressed, which can be difficult at best.  After tuning my bow, which admittedly took a while, my single bevels don't steer the front end of my arrows, they fly great!  My heavy arrows are also not affected near as much in wind as my hunting buddies who still shoot "darts".  

 

I've noticed Broadheads "steering" arrows only happens if shafts aren't spined correctly, broadheads aren't mounted straight, or your bow isn't completly tuned to a specific arrow & broadhead setup.

 

As others have shared in the past, I too have seen way too many lost elk shot with fast darts over the years, both fixed blades & expanding.  At the same time, I've seen none with heavy setups.  And yes, every animal or situation is different, & many fast darts are quick kills, but on average, I'd argue fast darts have accounted for more losses by far than heavy setups, on average, for a variety of reasons. 

 

Below is from a unit 8 bull a few years ago taken at 35 yds with a single bevel broadhead, complete pass-through, with sheared ribs on both sides.  Notice the "L" cut, typical with rotating single bevel heads as they pass through tissue.

This heart-shot bull went about 100 yds in a matter of seconds before piling up.  Also note the broadhead was still "shaving sharp" even after taking this animal.

 

For the reasons above, on elk, I'll be using my heavy arrows & single bevel broadheads.  Note that on deer etc, I too shoot "fast darts".

 

[AZkiller]

On 8/17/2021 at 1:14 PM, yotebuster said:

I agree in theory but not in practice.  The level of tune you need to throw those big long broadheads straight is beyond what most people’s shooting ability.  I shoot a 500 grain arrow but my groups open up substantially with any fixed head ive tried, especially in wind.  I don’t buy the whole single bevel “breaking” bone thing and I absolutely don’t want front end steering on my arrow (which is what a single bevel does).  I think Ashby’s research is so focused on shooting African crap at 12 yards on a hay pile they forget that you also need to be able to hit things at reasonable hunting distances.  I would agree that my bow would kill best with a 325gr single bevel head and a 800 gr areow at 15 yards, but if I’ve got that shot, it will do just fine with my 500 gr VAP and a rage.  

Need to work on your arrow tuning skills.

[yotebuster]

3 hours ago, AZkiller said:

Need to work on your arrow tuning skills.

I was an archery tech in a pro shop for 3 years.  Never said bows can’t be tuned that well.  People can’t be tuned that well.  

[high rise hunter]

On 8/17/2021 at 1:14 PM, yotebuster said:

I agree in theory but not in practice.  The level of tune you need to throw those big long broadheads straight is beyond what most people’s shooting ability.  I shoot a 500 grain arrow but my groups open up substantially with any fixed head ive tried, especially in wind.  I don’t buy the whole single bevel “breaking” bone thing and I absolutely don’t want front end steering on my arrow (which is what a single bevel does).  I think Ashby’s research is so focused on shooting African crap at 12 yards on a hay pile they forget that you also need to be able to hit things at reasonable hunting distances.  I would agree that my bow would kill best with a 325gr single bevel head and a 800 gr areow at 15 yards, but if I’ve got that shot, it will do just fine with my 500 gr VAP and a rage.  

I tend to agree with this. With fixed blade broadheads I have a hard time getting the consistency I do from mechanicals at say 50+ yards. I've landed the last few years on a 420 grain, 4mm arrow, rage broadhead with about ~16% FOC and haven't NOT gotten a passthrough, including elk.

[bojangles]

On 8/17/2021 at 8:32 AM, bojangles said:

I’m in the light, fast, expandable, well tuned crowd.  Animals have died.  

Let me clarify…

 

I listened to a Tim gillingham podcast with Aaron Snyder that changed my view on arrows.  Tim pointed out that light fast arrows kill and penetrate better than what you think, plus you have the advantage of yardage forgiveness if you’re off a couple of yards.  
 

im guessing my bow , set up to hunt is around 325 fps, so tuning a fixed blade would be tricky, and require the utmost perfection during the release.  I shoot a shwacker, which has the blade buried in the ferrule of the broad head for  peak arrow flight.  It kills at long ranges, including a 50 yard pass through on an elk.  I shoot a 7.9 gpi arrow with a 100 grain head, cut at about 29”.  
 

im not saying a heavy arrow with a single bevel broad head doesn’t work, I’m saying a light fast arrow with an expandable does work. 
 

shoot what you’re confident with.  

[codyhuntsaz]

I have taken 5 bulls, all with mechanical heads. 4 with the original Rocket Steelhead and 1 with a Swhacker. ALL have died within sight. Some complete pass thrus, some with the arrow sticking out the far side. I’m a shoot fast, flat, mechanical guy. 

[Alpinebullwinkle]

Serious question I'd appreciate everyone's input on. I'm practicing with 100 grain target tips. Haven't tested my 100 grain Thunderhead broadheads to compare yet. Seems like 10 years ago when last drawn or elk my broadheads shot slightly higher than the same grain target tips. What is the expectation, or your past experiences comparing the two? 

[yotebuster]

2 minutes ago, Alpinebullwinkle said:

Serious question I'd appreciate everyone's input on. I'm practicing with 100 grain target tips. Haven't tested my 100 grain Thunderhead broadheads to compare yet. Seems like 10 years ago when last drawn or elk my broadheads shot slightly higher than the same grain target tips. What is the expectation, or your past experiences comparing the two? 

They could be anywhere from right on to way off depending on your tune.  If you haven’t shot them yet then it’s not to late to get some new broadheads, there are so many good options out there that are better then the old aluminum can thunderheads.  This late in the game I’d get some expandables and go hunting as it’s too late to try to figure out a fixed head.  Most good expandables these days are light years better then a thunderhead anyhow.  

[AZkiller]

On 9/1/2021 at 10:59 AM, Alpinebullwinkle said:

Serious question I'd appreciate everyone's input on. I'm practicing with 100 grain target tips. Haven't tested my 100 grain Thunderhead broadheads to compare yet. Seems like 10 years ago when last drawn or elk my broadheads shot slightly higher than the same grain target tips. What is the expectation, or your past experiences comparing the two? 

I would expect that you would have all of this figured out well before 14 days to open.