Long Range Shooting

[firstcoueswas80]

Jimmy, If you want to step down to 165's, my 300 really liked 72 grains of IMR 4350 with a 165 sierra boattail. I don't recommend using the boattails anymore due to them exploding once they enter the animal. I was pushing them right around 3250 per second. See if they might want to try the Hornady SST's. David

 

Last year I shot 3 deer, 1 antelope, and 1 javelina with 130 grain sierra game kings with a muzzle velocity of 3,550 fps. All 5 animals dropped in there tracks, and with the exception of the javelina none of the bullets exited the animal. The year before I shot a deer and a javelina with the same bullets and same results. I'm just curious why it would be considered a negative to have the bullet "explode" inside an animal and turn the chest cavity into soup? I personally look for a bullet that will explode inside the animal. That way the animal eats 100% of the bullets remaining kenetic energy, and in my experience never even moves another step. In my opinion they're performing perfectly.

 

Not trying to pick a fight, just curious how you came to this conclusion?

 

 

Everytime I see this discussed, it turns ugly for some reason or another! When it comes to me, I want a bullet that holds together, penetrates and expands. Controlled expansion is my friend. I know coues dont take much penetration at all to get to the vitals, but there is always the"what if" scenario... What if you have to drive the bullet from the last rib to the front shoulder? If the bullet basically expoldes on contact and doesnt even make it to the vitals, where does that leave the deer? With a blown up gut that may or may not kill the deer right there. What happens if the explosive bullet (lets say ballistic tip for example) hits shoulder bone? Does it penetrate? Maybe, maybe not. I shot my first coues at over 400 yards TWICE in the same shoulder with a 125 NBT from a 30-06. Neither bullet went past the shoulder blade, but caused sever damage. This is why I have been hesitant to use the VLD bullet.. They say it is designed for a few inches of penetration then RAPID expansion. On a perfect broadside shot, thats fine. Us Coues hunters (more than any other) should know things hardly, if ever go accodring to plan.

 

Personally, I want a bullet that enters, starts to open at a controlld rate, turns the vitals to jello and exits. I have seen deer fall to different bullets including ballistic tips, Accubonds ( the most, recovered one. PERFECT even form 30 yards), TSX, regular cup and core Sierra Game Kings (recovered from an elk), Trophy Bonded Bear Claw (recovered as well, but lost that night), Nosler Partition, Regular PSP from Federal factory load.... In my experience, the Accubond has done everything I have ever asked it to do from 25 feet on my lion, to 531 yards on my dads last buck. All experience with that bullet as been caliber hole in, half dollar-silver dollar size exit. No matter the distance, or what the bullet has struck, it has performed flawlessly. Next best has been the TSX. I have only seen two deer fall to that bullet, but both of the were DRT.

 

My perfect hunting bullet puts two holes in a deer. One in at caliber size, one out at 1/2" or so, is accaurate and has a high ballistic coeffiecnt. Turns innards to mush. I have seen the Accubond do this a number of times, and is accurate with a high BC. Other good choices include the Hornady Interbond, Swift Scirocco, Barnes TSX (and TSX).

 

My $.02

[TAM]

Casey, I've never had one "explode" outside the shoulder. They have all penetrated through the sholuder into the chest cavity and turned everything into mush. Quite literaly. I agree completly that if the bullet is exploding without significant penetration then it's a failure. On the other hand if the bullet reaches the vitals and then explodes, it seems to me that it is a complete success.

 

My buck from the Kaibab I shot at 72 yards with a 130 grain Sierra Game King at a muzzle velocity of 3,550 fps. I always aim for the high shoulder and thats where I hit him. The bullet took out the bottom of his backbone/spinal cord and as mentioned before the rest was soup. I understand that dead is dead, but how could anyone say that the bullet failed. And for what it's worth all I found of the bullet was a few small fragments of the jacket here and there.

 

Failure... I say not even close. JMO

[firstcoueswas80]

If it makes it through the shoulder to the vitals, then it did its job!

 

That highshoulder shot is a killer! I have killed 2 or three deer with it and they have all been bang flops, no matter what the bullet is! I think that shot shocks the spine, and catches the top of the lungs. (actually, I know thats what it does) and I love that shot if you can make it everytime!

 

When I walked up on my December buck, I put another round through his front shoulder and found it at his right rear hip. Smashed the front shoulder, tore up the vitals and still weighed 90+ grains. If I recall correctly, that was 63 or so % weight retention.. Fired from a MV of 3,250 at a distance of 35 yards.. Not bad!

[azhuntnut]

The experience I had with the sierra's was on a muley hunt some years ago. The only shot I had was a frontal. I would have to admit that the deer dropped dead in its tracks without even a kick or twitch. When I opened it up, the heart was gone, and the bullet had completely exploded. In my opinion, I think it was to much speed for the bullet. I am trying out some factory loads this year from Federal with the ballistic tips in my 7mm-08. I usually soak some phone books overnight and then take them out and shoot them to see how the bullet reacts. David

[Red Rabbit]

I have not recovered a Nosler Ballistic Tip from a coues or Texas whitetail yet. Used 130s and 140s from a 270, and 150s from a 280 and 7 Rem Mag.

 

Regarding the Berger VLD, here is the article on page 40 in Rifle magazine by John Barsness testing them on a hunt and in test media.

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/hl248partial.pdf

 

Doug~RR

 

[azhuntnut]

Doug, Have you been happy with the results of the Nosler ballistic tips? I picked up four new boxes of the federal premium 140 for a smokin deal and wanted to use them on my coues hunt. I have also been looking into the Hornady light magnum 139 SST since the barrel on my gun is only about 16.50 inches. I figured I am loosing at least 200 fps with the shorter barrel. David

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=13...98dd507689626df

[hunterdude]

I use Nosler ballistic tips in my .270s and Nos. Partions in my .300win. . I dropped a elk on the run at 225yrds with the .300 and never found the bullet. I dropped a mulie at 206 with the .270 and never found the bullet. Both animals had mush for hearts and part of the lungs blasted. The only bullet I have ever found was from a .22-250 on a whitetail at 220 yards, the bullet and jacket where stuck on the opposite side of impact between the hide and meat! The bullet was a remington sp through the shoulder blade! Dropped like a rock!

[AzTrapper]

So with all this talk about turreted scopes, and long range shots I started thinking about what you all would be using for your custom load? Right now I'm pushing about 2760 fps out of my .300wm 700 action using 180 gr SP Hornady .308s using H4350 powder (lots of it on hand ) its pretty accurate out to about 800 or so. Thats about as far as we can shoot while still proned out where we go shooting. The only problem we're having is judging the wind that far out. Up close where it doesn't matter we can use the wind meter which also gives us a read out of the current temps, and humidity reading, but who know what those factors are across the canyons. Last night I got an e-mail from a guy in Texas that is going to send me about fifteen of the new Accubond 208 gr. .308s to load up and see how I like them. They are suppose to have a BC of over .5 which I like and they are heavy to punch out some more recoil which I don't like.

 

Who knows, maybe next year instead of the 100 yard archery contests at the get togethers we should see who can hit 1K consistantly.

My hunting set-up is a Remington 721 300 H&H mag with a custom barrel (1 inch bull 28 inches long) with a leupold T10 scope,and custom trigger. The load I shoot is a 168 grain Berger VLD with 68 grains of IMR 4350 which gives me sub 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards. I use 200 yards instead 100 for testing loads. I went Berger bullets several years ago and found I picked not only FPS but also is flatter shooting with the Berger than others. I have shot everything from pigs to elk with them and have always had one shot kills. I do try for the high shoulder shot as it will do everything I want even if I am off a little. I have tried Accubonds and could not get the gun to shoot anything better than 2-3 inchs at 200 yards so they were out, I myself want the bullet to enter the animal and "blow" up inside to release all of its engery inside and the Berger seems to work. The rifle has over 25 head of big game with the Berger and all have been one shot one step kills.

 

[catclaw]

There are two schools of thought on this and Tim and I have discussed this somewhat. On an animal small enough to dominate with shock and awe (energy) the VLDs are probably as good as it's going to get; accurate, flat shooting and low wind drift along with devastating terminal performance. This is on animals under 130-150 lbs. A big mule deer is probably not going to be completely overwhelmed with a lot of the VLD bullets shot from standard "deer cartridges". I would want to keep my shots close enough that I had a lot of steam left when it hit. When you are talking elk, that's a whole different thing. They are big and tough and about as bullet-proof as it's going to get in North America. Unless you are shooting a 408 Chey-tac, you are not going to knock a big bull off his feet. Period. I prefer a tough, deep penetrating bullet for elk because when I see the elk I want and it may not be broadside, I want to be able to take the shot NO MATTER WHICH WAY HE IS FACING! If he is facing away, the 270 caliber VLD is a very poor choice. I think the elk would run off a LONG ways with this type of shot. With a Barnes X, it is going down.

 

If you shoot a 110" whitetail in the bung with a 270 cal VLD, it's probably going to floor him. Pick your poison but be ready to turn down some shots that are good. Apparently you shouldn't compare the Sierra MKs with the Bergers. When I was hunting in Mexico, all the guide kept saying was "don't ruin the cape". We were ALL using David Miller preferred 168 grain Sierras and I guess they had destroyed a few capes with shoulder shots. I kept holding further and further back to avoid the cape damage. According to Tim, the Bergers don't exit and make small holes going it- this is a good thing!

 

I would prefer the Accubond to the Berger for elk hunting.

[Hooked_on_Coues]

These threads always crack me up.

 

Does anyone remember reading the articles on the same issue ten years ago? Back then it was the sierra gk vs the nosler partition. Bullets have come a long way.

 

I like to shoot vld or SST in my 6.5, MRX in the 300 WBY.

[matthewp45]

My hunting set up is a 7MM Dakota 168 grain Berger VLD @ 2,900 fps. I use 72 grains of Hogden Retumbo powder and Federal 215 primers. I have a Leupold Mark 4 with Kenton turrets on it. I would take my set up to hunt any North American Game animal. Watching the show Best of the West got me interested in the Bergers. Those boys have taken tons of the toughest game in North America with a regular 7MM with 168 VLD. I have not been let down yet.

[crazy4COUES]

My understanding is that you want hydraulic shock to be absorbed by the animals vitals, inside the chest cavity. When a bullet passes through the animal is that not wasting the bullets kenetic energy the animals vitals are supposedto be shocked by? The "perfect bullet" will enter penetrate, expand, and stop on the opposite side under the hide. That delivers 100% of the energy to the animals vitals. You want the insides to be mush more than a nice exit hole don't you?

[m gardner]

I have a bunch of bullets for a 6.8 SPC Rem. and while loading for my 270 winchester I got the idea that the 110 grain Barnes Tripleshock would be fun to try. I came up with a load of 50 grains of Varget and a standard CCI primer in my winchester cases. I don't know how fast it is going(probably close to 3400) but it groups consistently into 5/8 inch or less at 100 yards. I think it will kill a Coues deer and I'm trying it. Virtually no recoil and no holdover out to 350 yards on a 6 inch target. It recoils little enough that you can watch the bullet hit. The wind seems to not bother it much either. It's a pretty long bullet being monometal. I've always considered 300 yards long range so I guess it's my long range load.

Mark

[desertdog]

My load for my .280 Rem is as follows.

 

54.5 grains AA4350

CCI250 Primers

150gr Sierra Game King BT

Remington Brass

 

3050 muzzle velocity checked through Ohlar Chronograph

 

I shoot 1 inch groups with this load with my out of the box Ruger M77 Mark II. People that can shoot better than me can probley tighten that a bit.

 

I have killed several Whitetail and Mule Deer with this load out to over 400 yards with no issues. I am currently doing more test loads with IMR powders and different components. I always love to tinker.

 

Happy Shooting

[azhuntnut]

I tried some Hornady light magnum 85 grain Interbonds last week in my TC .243. I sighted it in at 100 yards dead on early in the week, and then went out to the desert to stretch it out a bit. I set up targets at 200, 300, and 400 yards. I am using a Nikon Monarch 6-24x50 scope with bullet drop reticle. I held dead center at 200 and was just outside the center. I then used the next circle in my scope for 300 and hit it about two inches low. I went to the next circle for the 400 mark and hit it two inches to the left, but dead center. All of these were one shot each without any shooting time before hand. I would have to say that these Hornady light mag loads are very accurate to say the least. Not bad for just picking them up off the shelf. These bullets might save you a little reloading time if you are in a hurry. David