G&F commission voted unanimously to ban trail cams

[Elkhunter1]

On 6/18/2021 at 5:54 AM, 654321 said:

5-0, enough said.

Not when they misrepresented (lied) to the Governor's office the reason to obtain permission to open a special rule making session in the first place!!!!

[creed]

One other thing......many cattle ranches have huge chunks of state trust land. That is not public land as a lot of guys think it is.

Sorry for getting off topic. I think the trail camera issue is absurd and unenforceable.  There should have been an outright ban or a season.

[Explorer]

1 hour ago, creed said:

Having been involved in farming and cattle most of my life I understand the attitude of many cattlemen. A$$holes coming in and cutting fences, trash, shooting holes in water tanks, off road issues and general "I could give a rip" attitudes. I agree that some cattlemen could be less confrontational but it only takes a couple of incidences to shut down chunks of land to the public. Much of it is leased but there are also private property issues. Many cattle ranches are checkerboard.

One year during deer season I had guys driving across fields and ditches chasing deer. When we went in to pick cotton in one field we found 6 bucks that had been shot and unrecovered.  Pulling pieces of a two week old dead buck out of a cottonpicker  head wasn't my idea of fun. Stuff like that doesn't exactly endear the farmer/rancher to the public.

 

I have seen thing go from welcome to get off my land in the last few decades. 19b antelope hunts are a prime example. I cast blame in a few directions.  Guides paying off for sole access. And the invasion of idiots trying to be sportsman. Shoot we never had as many human caused wildfires until 25 years ago when the invasion of our state began. Dont mean to get off subject. But trail cameras and tags numbers are not what is wrong with thea state of hunting in our state.

[huntlines]

On 6/11/2021 at 11:45 AM, huntlines said:

The domino which will start the chain reaction dividing the hunting community?

I enjoyed the comments and arguments on both side of this issue. The fair chase issue was the strongest in my opinion. 

Animal rights groups are the biggest winner today.

17 pages, I believe speaks for itself regarding how this will tear the hunting community apart.

[creed]

28 minutes ago, Explorer said:

And the invasion of idiots trying to be sportsman.

This. ^^^^^^^^

 

After what happened last year following the shutdown of Covid19 it will never be the same. Add in the loss of  winter archery hunts and it will be a cluster this winter in the open units.

[Explorer]

6 minutes ago, creed said:

This. ^^^^^^^^

 

After what happened last year following the shutdown of Covid19 it will never be the same. Add in the loss of  winter archery hunts and it will be a cluster this winter in the open units.

Wait a few years after everyone shoots all the spikes and forks just to tag out in those units. The rut is deadly for the smaller bucks when hunters lower their standards due to limiting hunt units. They might as well issue doe tags in limited quantity in some units. Its proven that doe hunts increase breeeding to compensate.  Same as when antelope dont drop as many fawns on some years and more on others based on predation and water.

[wildwoody]

We aren't like the eastern states with unlimited whitetail, do to or habit here if you shot the doe's then in a few years you will be lizard hunting. No real answer.

Wont be long and there will be no more hunting, due to idiot so called outdoors man, and governments that just don't care about wildlife conservation leave our doe's alone. Just my opinion..

[Desertguide]

4 hours ago, Explorer said:

No sweat. Whats game and fish going to do? They cannot even give appropriate punishment to poachers. The big guides are gonna keep running cameras imo. Until game wardens start taking hammers to cameras.. oh wait they cater to guides. And yes the cattlemen did alot for hunters by putting in water. That was years ago when communities were close nit and everyone knew everyone. Ranchers welcomed good local folk to hunt their leases.. sometimes even the micro patch of land they even owned. Not any more. Cattlemen have done more to restrict hunting in the last 30 years than any tree huggers. 

Nearly everything you said here is BS. They cater to guides... lol. They love guides so much they banned trailcams because of guides. 

[Desertguide]

3 hours ago, creed said:

Having been involved in farming and cattle most of my life I understand the attitude of many cattlemen. A$$holes coming in and cutting fences, trash, shooting holes in water tanks, off road issues and general "I could give a rip" attitudes. I agree that some cattlemen could be less confrontational but it only takes a couple of incidences to shut down chunks of land to the public. Much of it is leased but there are also private property issues. Many cattle ranches are checkerboard.

One year during deer season I had guys driving across fields and ditches chasing deer. When we went in to pick cotton in one field we found 6 bucks that had been shot and unrecovered.  Pulling pieces of a two week old dead buck out of a cottonpicker  head wasn't my idea of fun. Stuff like that doesn't exactly endear the farmer/rancher to the public.

 

Kurt had 40 something deer poached on his farm in one year. I've personally run many trespassers off their farms. Ranchers and farmers close the land they are able to because people are IDIOTS. 

[Desertguide]

Arizona is one of, if not the best state in the country for hunting access. That's due in large part to the efforts game and fish and the critter groups make to keep ranches open. There are lots of units with tough access but that's life. Ranchers have as much right to close their property as you have to lock your front door. We should all be thankful we hunt in a state like AZ. Don't like it? Try moving to Texas and finding a place to hunt without paying a mint. Or.. try NM or WY where ranchers get landowner tags. Or... NV where they have a special guide draw. Thats right... they set tags aside just for guys that use guides. We have it so good. 

[HuntHarder]

Yup, hard to blame cattlemen or ranchers for much of anything.  The lack of respect for someone's land is disgusting.  I've helped farmers burn brush just so I could get access to hunt their land.  Those days are all but gone.  

 

Like with trailcams, bad apples cause everyone to lose freedoms.  

[wildwoody]

35 minutes ago, Desertguide said:

Kurt had 40 something deer poached on his farm in one year. I've personally run many trespassers off their farms. Ranchers and farmers close the land they are able to because people are IDIOTS. 

1 st obvious your a guide, and how many deer did the rancher get for himself? Or not.

[AZtroutman]

[creed]

32 minutes ago, wildwoody said:

1 st obvious your a guide, and how many deer did the rancher get for himself? Or not.

What does that mean? If they are on private property and he denies public access yet allows family or friends to hunt them what is that to anyone. Its not like it's high fence.

The 40 deer Desertguide is talking about is likely tied into a poaching ring in Harquahala Valley some years ago when the produce farming was at it's peak. There was a couple of guys that were commercially selling venison for a portion of what those farm workers could buy beef.  They took a heavy toll on the deer  herds before they were stopped.

[Desertguide]

23 minutes ago, AZtroutman said:

Hey man..  I haven't said "trailcam" once. You must be a G&F plant.

😂😂😂