G&F commission voted unanimously to ban trail cams

[JSR]

6 minutes ago, AZtroutman said:

Ok, let me know if its legal to use a trail cam for aid in take in Jan 2022. Hopefully you'll show us all how much of a "law" it isn't.

Here is how BILLS are passed into LAW

 

 

 

 

[Desertguide]

9 minutes ago, AZtroutman said:

Ok, let me know if its legal to use a trail cam for aid in take in Jan 2022. Hopefully you'll show us all how much of a "law" it isn't.

I think what he's getting at is the difference between a rule and a law. The legislature is the only entity that can make laws. The commission can only vote and implement rules. If you look in the regs you'll see arizona revised statutes and commission rules.  Arizona Revised statues start with ARS and rules with R. Example... A.R.S. 17-362 is a law pertaining to guides. R-12-107 is a rule pertaining to the bonus point system

[AZtroutman]

22 minutes ago, JSR said:

Here is how BILLS are passed into LAW

 

 

 

 

I guess if we're getting technical about how a law is made you are correct. But rule or law come Jan 2022 it will be illegal to kill an animal with the help of a camera. And if we look back I never mentioned anything about azgfd making laws. However, they do have the power to make rules that make certain acts illegal, and in essence it has the same effect.

[AZtroutman]

26 minutes ago, bowhunter4life said:

Never know with A3- but they continually have customers with the Commissioner tags that pay AZGFD hundreds of thousands of dollars- Maybe A3 bragging is correct on the 300 cameras to locate the shooter.  But the biggest Bull or Mule deer is promoted by the department in the name of receiving huge $$$.  Don't worry those cameras will still be out as new "outdoor enthusiast wildlife watchers" will now own them and share where those Commissioner tag shooters may live..... in the black market......  

Nope- I had 3 tanks all to myself on the strip without a camera and not even close to 15 years ago.   But then again I was happy with a 170 class buck with my bow- maybe they pulled them as the strip standard was not there?  

Do you really think hunters who do their homework before season cannot pattern a pronghorn, mule deer, coues, elk or javelina from watching them from a distance with a tripod and 15 power binos and be set up on opening morning and harvest them with a few days scouting before opening day?  Have you really hunted Arizona or are you a new tag holder without much success as I call Bullsh** on your true hunting capabilities.... But I did get a message- you are a new member and employed by the AZGFD- True?

dang it, you got me. How did you know?

[AzDiamondHeat]

I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes like the seat belt law. Rarely does anyone get pulled over just because they don't have a seat belt on if they are not doing anything else wrong. But the police certainly can use it as a reason to pull you over and will also tack it on. I can see the fish cops or whoever is enforcing this to use it in a similar manner. Mostly as a way to put an end to SOME of the fighting and territorial behavior.

As i said many months ago, this is all about some hunters not being able to manage themselves. We caused this. Ego and internet fame. Its not about hunting.

 

 

 

[shooterpar]

2 hours ago, Elkhunter1 said:

The questions I have for you are, how many big game predators use the ambush method at water.....they all do! How often do most people check their cameras?  Can you tell from just the tracks how big are the deer and how which ones are bucks? How often do you check water sources when you scout?

 

I use cameras to limit my time at either water or other spots I place cameras, and yes I do sit hilltops and glass and glass and glass.

Getting photos from a trail camera that was taken last week in no way helps me find him today, he'll even a photo a few hours old doesn't help!!!  Can you tell from the photo which way he went, did he turn left, right or go straight?  You still have to put your leg work in to find him, get into position and execute the perfect shot.

I guess what I am saying is there is more than one way to scout/hunt. I don't tell you how to conduct yourself and I dang sure don't want you tell me!  

My point was under the definition of the AZGFDs fair chase, how is 24hr surveillance of water holes fair chase?  No I’m not asking what your definition is or anyone else’s here.  I’m going by what their definition is.

 

Now, do I agree with it?  To a point yes.  There are absolutely problems areas, strip, 9, kaibab, this, my opinion, can’t be argued.  Do I think the Coues guys running cams on salt in the back country is a problem, no.  
 

But something needed to be done about the problems.  And this was their solution.  
 

 

[Desertguide]

I forgot to add something to my long boring post from earlier. 

I completely disagree with this idea that the commission is somehow corrupt. What in the world do any of them have to gain from a trailcam ban? Some might say they're influenced by the cattle growers association. Ok... to what end? Free steaks?... lol. At the very worst, they're old school guys that want to see the old ways of hunting preserved. Does that amount to a conspiracy? No. I think we need to not let the national political climates influence on our thinking impede simple logic. Leave the conspiracy mindset on social media. 

[ThomC]

When is the retirement party for the out going chairman?  I would like to see him give up his badge, car, and keys.  Also his department authorized trail cam and images and other department accesses and information he has acquired while a commissioner.  It would not be fair chase for him to use them. If he had any of the ethical sportsman values that he wants others to acquire he must not hunt or fish for a period of time.  

G&F should name this rule after him and give him another plaque.

[Desertguide]

Yeah let's impune the integrity of a commissioner with no evidence. That will bear great fruit. You sound a little like the guys I mentioned in my long post. 

[Wnn135]

I just got done watching  a video on you tube where the two guys are hunting javelina in Az. In the video they both have ear pieces coming from their ears and it then shows one stalking and you can hear the other one talking to him on a radio guiding him in on the javelina. I just wonder how long it will be before they say you cant have any electronics such as the radios when you hunt.

[Desertguide]

17 minutes ago, Wnn135 said:

I just got done watching  a video on you tube where the two guys are hunting javelina in Az. In the video they both have ear pieces coming from their ears and it then shows one stalking and you can hear the other one talking to him on a radio guiding him in on the javelina. I just wonder how long it will be before they say you cant have any electronics such as the radios when you hunt.

Guys would just use their phones and an earbud. I don't see them trying to outlaw phones while you're hunting. 

[trophyseeker]

1 hour ago, Wnn135 said:

I just got done watching  a video on you tube where the two guys are hunting javelina in Az. In the video they both have ear pieces coming from their ears and it then shows one stalking and you can hear the other one talking to him on a radio guiding him in on the javelina. I just wonder how long it will be before they say you cant have any electronics such as the radios when you hunt.

At one time, this was the B&C stance (and maybe P&Y also) on fair chase. Not sure if either still uses it.

Boone and Crockett Fair Chase Affidavit

I. Spotting or herding game from the air, followed by landing in its vicinity for the purpose of pursuit and shooting;

II. Herding or chasing with the aid of any motorized equipment;

III. Use of electronic communication devices (2-way radios, cell phones, etc.) to guide hunters to game, artificial lighting, electronic light intensifying devices (night vision optics), sights with built-in electronic range-finding capabilities (including smart scopes), drones/unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), thermal imaging equipment, electronic game calls or camera/timers/motion tracking devices that transmit images and other information to the hunter;

IV. Confined by artificial barriers, including escape-proof fenced enclosures;

V. Transplanted for the purpose of commercial shooting;

VI. Confined by artificial barriers, including escape-proof, fenced enclosures;

VII. While swimming, helpless in deep snow, or helpless in any other natural or artificial medium;

VIII. On another hunter’s license;

IX. Not in full compliance with the game laws or regulations of the federal government or of any state, province, territory, or tribal council on reservations or tribal lands.

[Desertguide]

Well think of it this way. If guys are using radios and hunting spot and stalk, then they aren't sitting on water or fighting with other guys for spots on water. The lid needs to stay on that box. 

[AZBIG10]

3 hours ago, ThomC said:

When is the retirement party for the out going chairman?  I would like to see him give up his badge, car, and keys.  Also his department authorized trail cam and images and other department accesses and information he has acquired while a commissioner.  It would not be fair chase for him to use them. If he had any of the ethical sportsman values that he wants others to acquire he must not hunt or fish for a period of time.  

G&F should name this rule after him and give him another plaque.

Agreed. Don’t need cams when u are spoon fed spots 

[wildwoody]

8 hours ago, AZtroutman said:

Well Alcoholic, one thing you'll notice about coues these days is that noone posts anything anymore. 95% of the content since March has been about trail cameras. So naturally my comments have been about trail cameras. 

 

Question was do you hunt, now he's an alcoholic ? WHAT...