G&F commission voted unanimously to ban trail cams

[AZtroutman]

7 hours ago, SirRoyal said:

I have said that from day one! I'm pumped and ready to flex some muscle!  Here is why? 

1. It start wrong with THE LIE. THE SIGNIFICANT PUBLIC SAFETY THREAT. 

2. We applied pressure so they changed there narrative to fair chase. 

3. Every single commissioner that did podcasts and or public out reach never one time brought up the LIE. 

4. This was an agenda driven by the minority prejudices against trail cams with in the hunting community and with in the dept and with in the commission chaired by Chairman Davis. By the way Bill Brake is now the chairman.

5. This was not a well thought out solution to anything all it did was create a quagmire!

6. Come on gentlemen since when does goverment know how to fix anything?

7. They listed 9 sorry  excuses for the ban. Go read them you will laugh too!

8. They have no Scientific evidence to back up a single claim!

9. The only evidence they have is there own public comments . Which they did twice and each time hunters overwhelming were against this ban. They ignored what the majority of their constituents wanted and catered to the prejudices of the minority. Sound familiar? 

10.  This commission meeting Friday was nothing but a dog and pony show here is why. We were allowed to make public comments before the vote. At the vote time each commissioner read their pre prepared statements of how they would vote and every single one knew not to vote for Option 2 but vote for Option 1. 

11. I thought they would at least consider what was said that day to them . Their minds were already made up . I thought the Commissioners would vote from the integrity of their hearts not by the COLLUSION of 5 . 

12. I realized the AZ Commissioners and Azgfd had taken the innocence of photography thru the lense of a trail camera and allowed the cancel culture hunting community to buy into their progressive agenda. When Peta and Sierra Club and the US Humane Society agree with the Commissioners we got a problem.

13.  I was amazed by their abuse of Power. Everyone of them should resign now starting with Commissioner Davis and then Commissioner Geiler and on down.  Shame on every one of them !  Power without Character is evil and dangerous!

This is not the end!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

14. When are you going to put your cameras up for sale and for how much?

[elkaholic]

Aztroutman........ seems 90 % of your time on cwt since March had been trail camera posts or comments.

 

Are you even a hunter?

Seem to be a know it all about nothing!

 

 

 

[AZtroutman]

1 minute ago, elkaholic said:

Aztroutman........ seems 90 % of your time on cwt since March had been trail camera posts or comments.

 

Are you even a hunter?

 

 

 

Well Alcoholic, one thing you'll notice about coues these days is that noone posts anything anymore. 95% of the content since March has been about trail cameras. So naturally my comments have been about trail cameras. 

 

[Elkhunter1]

2 hours ago, shooterpar said:

With the current drought conditions we have, how can 24hr monitoring of water sources be considered fair chase? 
 

It pays respect to the traditions of hunting and angling by emphasizing the development of an individual’s skills rather than reliance on practices or technologies that overwhelm the quarry’s ability to elude detection or take.

 

 

The questions I have for you are, how many big game predators use the ambush method at water.....they all do! How often do most people check their cameras?  Can you tell from just the tracks how big are the deer and how which ones are bucks? How often do you check water sources when you scout?

 

I use cameras to limit my time at either water or other spots I place cameras, and yes I do sit hilltops and glass and glass and glass.

Getting photos from a trail camera that was taken last week in no way helps me find him today, he'll even a photo a few hours old doesn't help!!!  Can you tell from the photo which way he went, did he turn left, right or go straight?  You still have to put your leg work in to find him, get into position and execute the perfect shot.

I guess what I am saying is there is more than one way to scout/hunt. I don't tell you how to conduct yourself and I dang sure don't want you tell me!  

[SirRoyal]

1 hour ago, AZtroutman said:

14. When are you going to put your cameras up for sale and for how much?

Actually I'm buying , let me know what you have?

[AZtroutman]

6 minutes ago, SirRoyal said:

Actually I'm buying , let me know what you have?

I like the rebel spirit 

[SirRoyal]

1 minute ago, AZtroutman said:

I like the rebel spirit 

It is not Sir! Not a rebel.  Its standing against corruption in high places .  They could have chosen to do some actually  scientific research then come to the table with some reasonable proposals. We would have listened. 

 There is always more options. 

But Chairman Davis had to get it done friday because this was his last meeting as chairman. It actually changed to Bill Brake that afternoon.

Rarely when it starts out wrong does it end up right. 

[AZtroutman]

12 minutes ago, SirRoyal said:

It is not Sir! Not a rebel.  Its standing against corruption in high places .  They could have chosen to do some actually  scientific research then come to the table with some reasonable proposals. We would have listened. 

 There is always more options. 

But Chairman Davis had to get it done friday because this was his last meeting as chairman. It actually changed to Bill Brake that afternoon.

Rarely when it starts out wrong does it end up right. 

I suppose we can all justify which laws we want to break

[JSR]

On 6/13/2021 at 12:34 AM, Elkhunter1 said:

As a hunter, how would you be able to run cameras AND hunt? The wording is vague at best which leads the wardens to get creative in their interpretation and application of the law. All you would have to do is hunt in the same general area to be in violation.

 

If I draw an elk tag in unit 10 and all of my cameras in unit 33..... how am I using my cameras to take or aid in take of an animal?

[JSR]

2 minutes ago, AZtroutman said:

I suppose we can all justify which laws we want to break

 

The game and fish commission have NEVER implemented a law.

[WHT_MTNMAN]

1 minute ago, JSR said:

 

If I draw an elk tag in unit 10 and all of my cameras in unit 33..... how am I using my cameras to take or aid in take of an animal?

yeah seriously, all of the cameras I use regularly are in 3c, (i usually run them to see horn growth, and have something to do May-August)  I haven't drawn an elk tag since 2010 in 3c and havent' drawn a deer tag since 1994 in 3c.  I don't see a problem at all but who knows.

[Desertguide]

I made the decision yesterday not to comment anymore because at that point I felt it was a waste of time. There was another reason though. I was tired of arguing with people that I would agree with on nearly every other topic. Debate is good until it's destructive. At this point I feel like it's getting destructive. 

I'm commenting again because I feel like I can offer something positive, otherwise I wouldn't comment. 

Whenever you're dealing with an issue like this with two opposing sides, you have to ask yourself what each side stands to benefit. This is especially true if you're on the fence like I ended up being. That has been my approach. In this case there are really 3 sides if you add wildlife into the equation. 

Leading up to the commissions decision, I definitely leaned anti ban for three reasons. I don't believe in more laws, I didn't think it was enforceable and I worried about unintended consequences... which there are many. 

Before the meeting, both sides here made compelling arguments. As the debate progressed and considering how a ban would effect me, I drifted towards the middle. I still had concerns... (still do)... but they were less about trailcams and more about unintended consequences. 

Then I watched the meeting. 

At that point I could honestly say I was just an objective observer. 

The pro ban folks didn't pull me to their side or push me away. It was zero sum. Admittedly I get very worried anytime the anti's and hunters are on the same side. Especially the Humane Society. The pro ban hunters (the only ones on that side that matter to me) really don't stand to gain anything. One can question their motivation though and I think many want a ban simply because they hate guides. But in the end, they don't gain anything.

The anti ban guys on the otherhand (some) TOTALLY turned me off. Some were respectful, made good arguments and were compelling. I was totally impressed with how Mike Ornoski handled himself. Russ Richardson was another I liked. Some on the otherhand were totally disrespectful, came off as totally self-serving and did nothing but hurt their cause. I know a few of them personally and want to maintain friendly relations so I won't name names. My advice to anyone interested in getting more involved in the political side of hunting would be to silence those guys and keep them from trying to represent you. They will ONLY hurt any cause they are involved in. 

I wish the outfitters and guides from both sides would have steered clear and not commented. No matter how pure their intentions might be, in a situation like this where guides are seen by many as the problem, they will appear corrupted by self interest. It's a sad fact but it's true. 

Finally the commission. They may have already had their minds made up. But I don't have an issue with that. Any chance of them voting on option 2 was shot to he!! by those who insulted them. It still blows my mind. It may have been a slim chance but after those comments... there was ZERO chance. 

The MOST important side in all of this is the wildlife. One can argue whether or not wildlife was helped by this. I think in most parts of the state wildlife will benefit. Especially where I hunt most in the desert. I worry about the "handful of units" because I think this will add human presence not lessen it. The most important thing is this didn't hurt wildlife in any way. That makes me happy. 

I think in the long run hunters will benefit. More time in the field makes you a better hunter. Theres no arguing that fact. Anyone that is forced out of the outdoors by this is only a benefit in the long run. If you can't get your butt out there and hunt without sitting water and using trailcams, you need to question why you hunt. Except of course those with mobility issues. I think they should make an exception for CHAMP hunters for sure. 

One thing that hasn't been talked about much is how the commission is keeping things like this out of the legislature and out the ballot box. There is no question that we want the legislature or non-hunting public out of wildlife management. They have no business making decisions about wildlife. That will benefit all of us. 

Sorry so long but that is my take. I think each of us needs to continue to question our own motives continually and remind ourselves that we always need to do what's best for wildlife and to preserve our hunting culture. Once the results come out, this will all calm down. Please remember that we are all on the same side in the end. Leave your animus on the thread when you walk away. Good luck to everyone in the draw!!!

[trphyhntr]

Mercy is for the weak. Can’t wait to bushwhack one off water using my cams 

[AZtroutman]

50 minutes ago, JSR said:

 

The game and fish commission have NEVER implemented a law.

Ok, let me know if its legal to use a trail cam for aid in take in Jan 2022. Hopefully you'll show us all how much of a "law" it isn't.

[bowhunter4life]

12 hours ago, AZtroutman said:

Ok, I guess Matt schimberg who runs A3 on the strip was lying when he said that. 

 

I guess if everyone can just show up 3 days before the hunt and glass a little and know what every deer is doing then we never really needed cameras to help in the first place so everything should be fine now. I'll also call bullshi* that you hunted "numerous" water sources without a camera on it. Unless you hunted 15+ years ago. . .  Or you've never actually hunted the strip.

Never know with A3- but they continually have customers with the Commissioner tags that pay AZGFD hundreds of thousands of dollars- Maybe A3 bragging is correct on the 300 cameras to locate the shooter.  But the biggest Bull or Mule deer is promoted by the department in the name of receiving huge $$$.  Don't worry those cameras will still be out as new "outdoor enthusiast wildlife watchers" will now own them and share where those Commissioner tag shooters may live..... in the black market......  

Nope- I had 3 tanks all to myself on the strip without a camera and not even close to 15 years ago.   But then again I was happy with a 170 class buck with my bow- maybe they pulled them as the strip standard was not there?  

Do you really think hunters who do their homework before season cannot pattern a pronghorn, mule deer, coues, elk or javelina from watching them from a distance with a tripod and 15 power binos and be set up on opening morning and harvest them with a few days scouting before opening day?  Have you really hunted Arizona or are you a new tag holder without much success as I call Bullsh** on your true hunting capabilities.... But I did get a message- you are a new member and employed by the AZGFD- True?