G&F commission voted unanimously to ban trail cams

[Desertguide]

21 minutes ago, lancetkenyon said:

Whatever.  Your wife hunts!  That means she will be out WITH you!  More time spent together in the field is a good thing!  😁

Just be careful out there.  Could mean your family will be growing sooner rather than later now.  

I'm 48 with an 18 month old. I'm DONE!!! We might get alot more practice in though!!! Yay me!!!! 

😂😂😂😂

[AZtroutman]

2 minutes ago, Desertguide said:

First off... weren't you the one that talked about all the outfitters having an army of minions? I can look back and quote you if you like. Remember all the flatbills? 

Trailcams aren't the only technology that has developed over the last 20 years. Used to be, only a handful of guys carried 15's and a tripod. Now everyone has them. BTX, Kowas, dual spotters.... all relatively new technology. 

You are correct, smaller outfitters will get killed by this. So where are those who want to hire outfitters going to go? The big outfits... who can afford to hire a bunch of kids to scout.... wearing flatbills of course. 

As far as tanks go, right now it's guys popping in and out to check cards. With this new rule, they're going to have to sit there and watch the animals come in. That's the dumbest thing about all this. It's going to put even more pressure on already stressed animals. 

Unintended consequences. 

 

The doom and gloom reverse psychology is laughable. When the guides couldn't convince people to let them keep their cameras they switched to that narrative. " Good! Take away the cameras it will only help us!" Lol yes they certainly have any army of minions but before they simply used most of them to run and check their cameras for them. For very little money. Now having to pay all them to sit out in the woods isnt practical. Nor will they hire even more of them to pay to sit in the woods. 

All those people that used to just sit there guarding tanks in the past was wild. . Wait, they didn't do that and they won't suddenly do that now. Let's look at nevada that instituted a camera ban and you will see none of this doom and gloom you bring up is happening. Good try though.

[Desertguide]

Just now, AZtroutman said:

The doom and gloom reverse psychology is laughable. When the guides couldn't convince people to let them keep their cameras they switched to that narrative. " Good! Take away the cameras it will only help us!" Lol yes they certainly have any army of minions but before they simply used most of them to run and check their cameras for them. For very little money. Now having to pay all them to sit out in the woods isnt practical. Nor will they hire even more of them to pay to sit in the woods. 

All those people that used to just sit there guarding tanks in the past was wild. . Wait, they didn't do that and they won't suddenly do that now. Let's look at nevada that instituted a camera ban and you will see none of this doom and gloom you bring up is happening. Good try though.

Lol... what frame of reference do you have to say they won't spend the money? Are you an outfitter? Do you know what they're willing to spend? How do you know what's practical? I know for a fact they will. That's why prices will go up... and clients will pay it. Do you think the outfitters that have been for the ban want it out of the goodness of their hearts? That's actually pretty funny.

I've said from the beginning this would help outfitters. Go back and look. I also said that I didn't want a ban because I was a DIY guy for many many years and I don't want to see them get screwed. Go back and look. There isn't any reverse psychology. Nice try. 

[HuntHarder]

Its over boys... decision has been made.  Lets bury this horse.

[AZtroutman]

8 minutes ago, Desertguide said:

Lol... what frame of reference do you have to say they won't spend the money? Are you an outfitter? Do you know what they're willing to spend? How do you know what's practical? I know for a fact they will. That's why prices will go up... and clients will pay it. Do you think the outfitters that have been for the ban want it out of the goodness of their hearts? That's actually pretty funny.

I've said from the beginning this would help outfitters. Go back and look. I also said that I didn't want a ban because I was a DIY guy for many many years and I don't want to see them get screwed. Go back and look. There isn't any reverse psychology. Nice try. 

95% of DIY guys don't use a camera in a significant way as to help them be successful so how is it going to hurt them? About 95% of guides do use cameras in a significant way as to help them be successful. 15 years ago if a DIY guy wanted the best chance of success he either went up and scouted or hired an outfitter. Now if a DIY guy wants to be successful he goes and scouts or hires an outfitter. Only difference is now the outfitters don't know the exact time and place the biggest bucks and bulls are drinking every single day for months on end. The animals have a fighting chance now and the majority of DIY guys that never used a camera anyway will have a much more level playing field. And overall mature animals being killed will go down on both sides. 

[Desertguide]

2 minutes ago, AZtroutman said:

95% of DIY guys don't use a camera in a significant way as to help them be successful so how is it going to hurt them? About 95% of guides do use cameras in a significant way as to help them be successful. 15 years ago if a DIY guy wanted the best chance of success he either went up and scouted or hired an outfitter. Now if a DIY guy wants to be successful he goes and scouts or hires an outfitter. Only difference is now the outfitters don't know the exact time and place the biggest bucks and bulls are drinking every single day for months on end. The animals have a fighting chance now and the majority of DIY guys that never used a camera anyway will have a much more level playing field. And overall mature animals being killed will go down on both sides. 

95% of statistics guys use are pulled directly from their ars. 

[AZtroutman]

2 minutes ago, Desertguide said:

95% of statistics guys use are pulled directly from their ars. 

You can act blind to reality all you want. It's still reality.

[AZtroutman]

I'll start calling you straw man from now on with those kind of responses.

[AZBIG10]

Think I would rather run cams then hunt with 500 of my closet friends in October in the desert anyhow.

[Desertguide]

9 minutes ago, AZtroutman said:

I'll start calling you straw man from now on with those kind of responses.

You're making numbers up man!!! You have no idea what percentage of guys use cameras... outfitters or otherwise. You try and use the strip, a couple elk units and the rest of the state in one argument when they might as well be on different sides of the planet. The price of hunts, the amount of cameras, the number of outfitters, the number of DIY hunters, the size of the bucks and bulls, the demand for tags and lengths guys go to kill big animals are all completely different than the rest of Arizona. If an outfitter on the strip is willing to buy "pallets" of cameras, you don't think he will hire a bunch of young guys to sit and watch deer all summer? You don't think an outfitter with 3 or 4 unit 9 early rifle bull tags won't hire guys to sit on tanks morning and evening to take pictures of the bulls that come in? I'm not trying to offend you but you haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about. 

[elkaholic]

Does the azgf really think they can enforce this law ? Guessin they hope  the honor system among law-abiding hunters will prevail. 

Sure it will help to illiminate cameras on tanks. Especially in the units they know have problems with too many  cameras.

I'd wager less than 30 % of cameras out there are actually on a tank or water! 

Most of their logic seems to be towards lesser pressure of wildlife.

This is B.S.  but covers their butts.!

 

 

[WhtMtnHunter]

2 hours ago, 654321 said:

Maybe CWD has not been detected because of the ban on baiting.

Yeah maybe you’re right. There was no cwd before the baiting ban and none after. 

[654321]

44 minutes ago, WhtMtnHunter said:

Yeah maybe you’re right. There was no cwd before the baiting ban and none after. 

Lets hope it stays that way.

[huntlines]

9 minutes ago, 654321 said:

Lets hope it stays that way.

So why all the freak out by G&F asking taxidermist to help them watch for CWD? Bait ban was the fix all no?

[654321]

17 minutes ago, huntlines said:

So why all the freak out by G&F asking taxidermist to help them watch for CWD? Bait ban was the fix all no?

There's no fix all for a disease that has no cure only measures to help slow down or stop the spread.  The bait ban wasn't the only rule to help with CWD exposure.