G&F commission voted unanimously to ban trail cams

[AllBoutHuntn]

8 hours ago, bonecollector said:

They are so concerned with the stress of the animals but yet they scheduled hunt after hunt after hunt. Its non stop hunting from Aug to the end of Jan.

This is my biggest problem. We keep having multiple hunts for whitetails year after year and you expect the game numbers to not go down?? Its a joke. The trail cam thing was just another stop gap to make them feel better. 

[Shawn]

They could have done so many things that were not near as drastic that would have taken care of the problem and also been easily forcible. Knee jerk reaction had their mind made up. They just created so many problems for themselves everybody that hates trail cams is going to be calling them about somebody using one to kill an animal. Wardens are going to be wasting so much time on the dang trail cams. 

[WhtMtnHunter]

Bushnell, cuddeback, browning, stealth cam, etc aren't going to hire lobbyists to get cameras legalized through the legislature?  Why wouldn't they go over the commissioners heads?  They, and the retail outlets, are now gonna lose a truck load of money on camera sales in AZ.  

Why doesn't the commission ever have sunset clauses on their decisions?  We were told they had to ban baiting due to CWD, yet years later absolutely no CWD has been detected.  Shouldn't baiting be reinstated at this point?  Let's see what happens with the camera ban in 5 years.  If banning cams makes a significant difference in age class and quality of the hunt then keep it.  If it makes no difference then sunset the rule and allow them again.  

[AZtroutman]

45 minutes ago, WhtMtnHunter said:

Bushnell, cuddeback, browning, stealth cam, etc aren't going to hire lobbyists to get cameras legalized through the legislature?  Why wouldn't they go over the commissioners heads?  They, and the retail outlets, are now gonna lose a truck load of money on camera sales in AZ.  

Why doesn't the commission ever have sunset clauses on their decisions?  We were told they had to ban baiting due to CWD, yet years later absolutely no CWD has been detected.  Shouldn't baiting be reinstated at this point?  Let's see what happens with the camera ban in 5 years.  If banning cams makes a significant difference in age class and quality of the hunt then keep it.  If it makes no difference then sunset the rule and allow them again.  

Pretty much a guarantee that this decision will boost age class on the strip. I dont care where you hunt, a unit cannot support killing 20+ 200 inch bucks every single year.

[ThomC]

It was hard to watch 5 people who supposedly care about hunters explain how they came to their conclusions using only subjective evidence.  Only non and anti hunting people would buy their story.  Real conservationists were insulted and sold out.  And this is not the first time and will not be the last.

[trphyhntr]

Molon labe.

[trophyseeker]

10 hours ago, NewlyMinted said:

1/4 mile from water or anything specific?

[Desertguide]

9 hours ago, WhtMtnHunter said:

Bushnell, cuddeback, browning, stealth cam, etc aren't going to hire lobbyists to get cameras legalized through the legislature?  Why wouldn't they go over the commissioners heads?  They, and the retail outlets, are now gonna lose a truck load of money on camera sales in AZ.  

Why doesn't the commission ever have sunset clauses on their decisions?  We were told they had to ban baiting due to CWD, yet years later absolutely no CWD has been detected.  Shouldn't baiting be reinstated at this point?  Let's see what happens with the camera ban in 5 years.  If banning cams makes a significant difference in age class and quality of the hunt then keep it.  If it makes no difference then sunset the rule and allow them again.  

The LAST thing in the world we would want is the legislature making decisions about wildlife. Even if its something we wholeheartedly agree with.. Thats a recipe for disaster. 

I think what the commission is trying to do is keep things like this out of the legislature and off ballots... which I agree with 100%.

[trophyseeker]

12 hours ago, WhtMtnHunter said:

the commission ever have sunset clauses on their decisions?  We were told they had to ban baiting due to CWD, yet years later absolutely no CWD has been detected.  Shouldn't baiting be reinstated at this point?  

A commission RULE always has a "sunset clause" because it's fairly easy to change or amend, unlike a law passed by the legislature, and especially unlike one passed by a voter initiative. 

As for "years later absolutely no CWD," the baiting ban must be working, huh? 🙄

[Desertguide]

8 hours ago, AZtroutman said:

Pretty much a guarantee that this decision will boost age class on the strip. I dont care where you hunt, a unit cannot support killing 20+ 200 inch bucks every single year.

No it will not. It will raise the price of hunts, it will put more guys scouting in the field up there for longer, it will separate the men from the boys up there but it WILL NOT boost the age class. They will still find a way to get it done. There MIGHT be a drop in big bucks killed in 2022... maybe. As for the rest of the state, you'll see outfitters killing an even bigger percentage of the trophy animals compared to DIY guys.

The only exception might be unit 9 because guys would basically have to sit tanks every day because there are limited places to glass from. Actually... theres only really one. One thing is for sure, the tanks in 9 are going to get mobbed now. As bad as it may have been before, it will be 10x worse. 

[654321]

9 hours ago, WhtMtnHunter said:

Bushnell, cuddeback, browning, stealth cam, etc aren't going to hire lobbyists to get cameras legalized through the legislature?  Why wouldn't they go over the commissioners heads?  They, and the retail outlets, are now gonna lose a truck load of money on camera sales in AZ.  

Why doesn't the commission ever have sunset clauses on their decisions?  We were told they had to ban baiting due to CWD, yet years later absolutely no CWD has been detected.  Shouldn't baiting be reinstated at this point?  Let's see what happens with the camera ban in 5 years.  If banning cams makes a significant difference in age class and quality of the hunt then keep it.  If it makes no difference then sunset the rule and allow them again.  

Maybe CWD has not been detected because of the ban on baiting.

[Desertguide]

Well one thing is for sure, the divorce rate among hunters is going to go up. Wives aren't going to be too thrilled with all the extra time their husband's will be spending scouting... 😂😂😂. And that'll be universal. Pissed of wives aren't a DIY or guide specific issue. 

[lancetkenyon]

45 minutes ago, Desertguide said:

Well one thing is for sure, the divorce rate among hunters is going to go up. Wives aren't going to be too thrilled with all the extra time their husband's will be spending scouting... 😂😂😂. And that'll be universal. Pissed of wives aren't a DIY or guide specific issue. 

Whatever.  Your wife hunts!  That means she will be out WITH you!  More time spent together in the field is a good thing!  😁

Just be careful out there.  Could mean your family will be growing sooner rather than later now.  

[AZtroutman]

1 hour ago, Desertguide said:

No it will not. It will raise the price of hunts, it will put more guys scouting in the field up there for longer, it will separate the men from the boys up there but it WILL NOT boost the age class. They will still find a way to get it done. There MIGHT be a drop in big bucks killed in 2022... maybe. As for the rest of the state, you'll see outfitters killing an even bigger percentage of the trophy animals compared to DIY guys.

The only exception might be unit 9 because guys would basically have to sit tanks every day because there are limited places to glass from. Actually... theres only really one. One thing is for sure, the tanks in 9 are going to get mobbed now. As bad as it may have been before, it will be 10x worse. 

I'm sure no cameras had nothing to do with many less 200 inch bucks being killed in the past huh? Those cameras don't help anything lol. I would agree with you that a bigger percentage of big bucks will be killed by guides. BUT. .  that's how it is now so what's the difference? There will be a lower number of overall big bucks killed on both sides. Of course guys will still get it done, they did in the past and they will continue to. Simple fact now is they will have to work much harder for it. That's what this rule is mostly about. Everyone sees it as something that is only taking away hunter opportunity while ignoring the part where they simply want to give animals a fair chance. If you can still get it done without cameras, great. But atleast the work had to be put in to make it happen. 

In regard to tanks, tanks all across the state are being mobbed already, so what's the difference? Everyone acts like there will just be hundreds of people lined up checking these tanks for sign. It wasn't like that in the past so why will it suddenly be now? Yeah some outfitters may hire some more guys to help find animals but noone is gonna hire the army of people that everyone is talking about to sit on every tank and high spot. Time will tell but I have a good feeling this will help the herds overall. It will certainly get rid of a lot of no name outfitters that solely depend on cameras.

[Desertguide]

3 minutes ago, AZtroutman said:

I'm sure no cameras had nothing to do with many less 200 inch bucks being killed in the past huh? Those cameras don't help anything lol. I would agree with you that a bigger percentage of big bucks will be killed by guides. BUT. .  that's how it is now so what's the difference? There will be a lower number of overall big bucks killed on both sides. Of course guys will still get it done, they did in the past and they will continue to. Simple fact now is they will have to work much harder for it. That's what this rule is mostly about. Everyone sees it as something that is only taking away hunter opportunity while ignoring the part where they simply want to give animals a fair chance. If you can still get it done without cameras, great. But atleast the work had to be put in to make it happen. 

In regard to tanks, tanks all across the state are being mobbed already, so what's the difference? Everyone acts like there will just be hundreds of people lined up checking these tanks for sign. It wasn't like that in the past so why will it suddenly be now? Yeah some outfitters may hire some more guys to help find animals but noone is gonna hire the army of people that everyone is talking about to sit on every tank and high spot. Time will tell but I have a good feeling this will help the herds overall. It will certainly get rid of a lot of no name outfitters that solely depend on cameras.

First off... weren't you the one that talked about all the outfitters having an army of minions? I can look back and quote you if you like. Remember all the flatbills? 

Trailcams aren't the only technology that has developed over the last 20 years. Used to be, only a handful of guys carried 15's and a tripod. Now everyone has them. BTX, Kowas, dual spotters.... all relatively new technology. 

You are correct, smaller outfitters will get killed by this. So where are those who want to hire outfitters going to go? The big outfits... who can afford to hire a bunch of kids to scout.... wearing flatbills of course. 

As far as tanks go, right now it's guys popping in and out to check cards. With this new rule, they're going to have to sit there and watch the animals come in. That's the dumbest thing about all this. It's going to put even more pressure on already stressed animals. 

Unintended consequences.